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I built this list from scratch, I didn't use anything near this to win in the preliminaries. However, Eldar are my favorite and even if they aren't the best list out there, they can still do fun stuff and be decently good. They got second place last year. And now for my list, feel free to critique, I plan on testing it later today.

HQ
Eldrad Ulthran 210pts


ELT
Howling banshees
Exarch and 9 bashees
Executioner, acrobatic 192pts

Howling Banshees
Exarch and 9 banshees
Executioner, Acrobatic 192pts

Fire Dragons
Exarch and 9 dragons, Wave serpent
Firepike, crack shot, TL shuriken cannon 285pts


TRP
Dire Avengers
Exarch and 9 avengers, Wave serpent
Two shuriken catapults, bladestorm, TL shuriken cannon252 pts

Dire Avengers
Exarch and 9 avengers, Wave serpent
Two shuriken catapults, bladestorm, TL shuriken cannon 252pts

Dire Avengers
Exarch and 9 avengers, Wave serpent
Two shuriken catapults, bladestorm, TL shuriken cannon 252pts

Dire Avengers
Exarch and 9 avengers, Wave serpent
Two shuriken catapults, bladestorm, TL shuriken cannon 252pts

Gaurdians
10 Gaurdians
Bright lance 110pts

Gaurdians
10 Gaurdians
Bright lance 110pts

HEVSUP
Wraithlord
Bright lance, wraith sword 140pts

Wraithlord
Bright lance, wraith sword 140pts

Falcon
Eldar Missile launcher 135pts

Total: 2496

Please PM me or comment, I need to tweak this thing so that I have at least a chance to win. Or beat my buddy, thats what I really care about. Can't go having best friends beating me now can I?

hmmm...Maybe add pathfinders?

Seems like a good list. Only other thing I might do is try and add some warlocks and put eldrad and all them on jetbikes. Warlocks on jetbikes are super powerful and you can zoom in..pow pow pow and run away, run away before anyone could ever assault ya. I never seen a wraithlord field and it looks like all your guys are in transports so that's good. I am not sure what to do beyond what you already have.

I don't know what you expect Banshees to do without Transports

You also need to get past the Wraithlords, and move onto a decent HS choice, like prisms, Falcons or even Walkers. Bladestorm and indeed the Exarchs are a points sink. Better to drop them all for Vypers.

Banshees are for counter assault and guardians for holding objectives in my deployment zone. I have never liked vypers, too easy to kill and not very useful on the field. Why don't you guys like wraithords?


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O ya, I tweaked it a bit. I dropped the prince in favor of a falcon with a missile launcher, and gave the banshee exarchs executioners

No offense, but this list will get crushed.

- Your banshees will be shot to hell before they see daylight.
- Your guardian Bright lances will fail hard at BS3 and without a lock they'll run off the board after a single blast hits them.
- Your Bladestorms lack proper Doom/Guide to be delivered properly (at least 2-3 won't have) making them a wet noodle against marines.
- You have a hybrid build of AT and CC for the Wraithlord. Pick a role and stick to it. Wraithsword alone keeps them cheap so rushign the front line isn't an issue or BL/EML gives them a decent AT ability to stay at range.

Over the list is Hybrid done wrong. If you want a guardian foot element give them Scatter lasers and take an Avatar for fearless, otherwise borrow some serpents and mech everything up (preferred means)

so ditch the gaurdians and take serpents for the banshees, then wraithlords with swords alone? Sounds like my original Idea, but it lacks antitank power for the 14 and 13 stuff


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And then like another farseer?

Elessar wrote:I don't know what you expect Banshees to do without Transports

You also need to get past the Wraithlords, and move onto a decent HS choice, like prisms, Falcons or even Walkers. Bladestorm and indeed the Exarchs are a points sink. Better to drop them all for Vypers.

Be cautious listening to guys with advice like this... Vypers are too fragile right now, wait till the next book when they get an overhaul to use them.

I just won my local ardboyz with foot eldar/mech hybrid, 2 of my heavies were wraithlords with missile launchers/wraith swords/dual flamer.... they do everything including soaking up crazy amounts of fire, I didn't lose one all day, they are great support elements. So the comment about them being bad slot choices is unfounded and dead wrong. Fire Prisms are too easy to neutralize, smart peeps will shake um and move on.

My 3rd heavy was war walkers with dual missiles, nasty against armor/monstrous creatures and infantry.

He's also wrong about decked out bladestorming avengers. Doom combined with blade storm will kill anything, I killed an Avatar, tons of infantry and knocked 4 wounds off a trygon in one volley with the combo during my games. The key is two support them and think ahead as they can't shoot the next turn, thats normally the turn I saddle up and reposition so realistically i'm not loosing any shooting. Its all about synergy, planning ahead and being ballsy.

I had 3 units of 15 guardians with warlocks/destructor + missiles. Another solid troop that can engage anything.

Take missiles over bright lances, the extra 12 inches means everything, ask Jenna Jamison if you don't believe me.

Back to seriousness, Bright lances are ok but expensive, missiles are more useful with the plasma option and have the range. If you want lances kit two of the avengers wave serpents out with them, there twin linked so they will hit and are the best deal (if you can even call it one) for those weapons in the book.

Banshees should do fine supporting the guardians, no need for transports with them as you can't move/assault with them. I would also drop one avenger serpent, keep those avengers near the guardians/banshees and use the serpent points/downgraded lance to missile points to buy an Avatar, this will create an anvil for your 4 serpents to support and he keeps the army immune to psychology. Not to mention he also soaks up fire and can beat dwn almost anything in CC, look out for TH/SS termies though, bladestorm those fun boyz.

Good luck and thanks for playing something other than mechdar, man has that list run its course. Its very weak compared to hybrid/foot lists but most of the "internet warriors" on here have no clue so you hear mech up all the time, I say save the points and bring more troopers. When Eldar outnumber there opponents they usually win and never underestimate a fearless guardian. Good luck in the next round.

Thanks alot man, you've given me alot of ideas. I'll test them out the first opportunity I get

Lol @ IG88 - far from an internet warrior here lol. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say you didn't face a competent Drop Pod Space Wolves list or IG ordinance heavy list. A drop pod list swarming an Eldar foot list will drop 20 bolter shots and most likely a flamer onto a guardians pack before they have a chance to react giving them a huge chance to down your two platform carriers. Now imagine that times 3 drop pods, and if you don't kill off the units in the following turn your going to get assaulted/multi-assaulted in which guardians have zero CC ability.

Wraithlords are fun, don't get me wrong, but if a single Powerfist/Power Klaw/Thunder Hammer gets in contact with them you can kiss them goodbye for the most part. If you face Tau, they will be railgunned into the ground. As a distraction unit/front line rusher with a swordlord 100pts they work well, but for firing there is better options point for point.

Fire Prisms can be shaken yes, but they don't fear rending, poisoned weapons, can move up to 12" while shooting and 24" if needed and really don't fear anything under s7.

Foot Eldar can work and win, but when it comes to weaknesses, foot eldar have a huge amount more worries.

Heh,

Vasarto, I have an odd feeling you don't play eldar...

Anyway, listen to BlueDagger.

As far as your list goes:

-The hybrid isn't working, the guardians are a large sink in points, you would be better off without them.

-Grav tanks/walkers would be a better heavy support choice, wraithlords do have a place indeed, though this list isn't it.

-The banshees need a serpent to be half decent. I would just stick to more dragons. (Dragons are used to death in lists, but rightly so)

-60 points to make that falcon scoring, not too bad.

If you want to make the list with wraithlords... you will have to start from scratch.

Ok so no wraithlords. How about 2 squads of 6 dragons both in falcons?


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(Truth be told I never liked them much. THey are only good for their hard to kill toughness and obvious primary targets)

IG88 wrote:

Elessar wrote:I don't know what you expect Banshees to do without Transports

You also need to get past the Wraithlords, and move onto a decent HS choice, like prisms, Falcons or even Walkers. Bladestorm and indeed the Exarchs are a points sink. Better to drop them all for Vypers.

Be cautious listening to guys with advice like this... Vypers are too fragile right now, wait till the next book when they get an overhaul to use them.

I just won my local ardboyz with foot eldar/mech hybrid, 2 of my heavies were wraithlords with missile launchers/wraith swords/dual flamer.... they do everything including soaking up crazy amounts of fire, I didn't lose one all day, they are great support elements. So the comment about them being bad slot choices is unfounded and dead wrong. Fire Prisms are too easy to neutralize, smart peeps will shake um and move on.

My 3rd heavy was war walkers with dual missiles, nasty against armor/monstrous creatures and infantry.

He's also wrong about decked out bladestorming avengers. Doom combined with blade storm will kill anything, I killed an Avatar, tons of infantry and knocked 4 wounds off a trygon in one volley with the combo during my games. The key is two support them and think ahead as they can't shoot the next turn, thats normally the turn I saddle up and reposition so realistically i'm not loosing any shooting. Its all about synergy, planning ahead and being ballsy.

I had 3 units of 15 guardians with warlocks/destructor + missiles. Another solid troop that can engage anything.

Take missiles over bright lances, the extra 12 inches means everything, ask Jenna Jamison if you don't believe me.

Back to seriousness, Bright lances are ok but expensive, missiles are more useful with the plasma option and have the range. If you want lances kit two of the avengers wave serpents out with them, there twin linked so they will hit and are the best deal (if you can even call it one) for those weapons in the book.

Banshees should do fine supporting the guardians, no need for transports with them as you can't move/assault with them. I would also drop one avenger serpent, keep those avengers near the guardians/banshees and use the serpent points/downgraded lance to missile points to buy an Avatar, this will create an anvil for your 4 serpents to support and he keeps the army immune to psychology. Not to mention he also soaks up fire and can beat dwn almost anything in CC, look out for TH/SS termies though, bladestorm those fun boyz.

Good luck and thanks for playing something other than mechdar, man has that list run its course. Its very weak compared to hybrid/foot lists but most of the "internet warriors" on here have no clue so you hear mech up all the time, I say save the points and bring more troopers. When Eldar outnumber there opponents they usually win and never underestimate a fearless guardian. Good luck in the next round.

All I get from this is that you play inferior opponents to me. And are being a passive-aggressive jerk, for some unknown reason.

An Eldar list, like you advise, with virtually no Fusion Guns and no Lances, will ALWAYS lose to Land Raider-heavy lists, unless the guy playing them doesn't have the first clue how to game.

An Eldar list, like you advise, while ALWAYS get stomped by even mediocre IG lists, as long as the player has the funds and wherewithal to purchase 2 or more Vendettas. Have you ever done the maths? A Vendetta has an insanely good chance of killing a Wraithlord outright, from 48" away, in one round. How the hell does taking just Sword, and thereby making you probably 40 points cheaper, make THAT worthwhile. Especially since, for another 15 points (still cheaper than Vendetta!) you get a Prism, that can outrange, and thereby avoid it, and provide solid anti-horde firepower, a good counter to Obliterators, and, in a pinch, a mediocre anti-tank platform.

An Eldar list attempting to Bladestorm Terminators...*Sigh* Have you ever even PLAYED Eldar?? Let's do some more maths (or rather, you do it for yourself, I already know it, having done it many times before...) with Guide AND Doom up, on average rolls, you STILL fail to wipe out a Tac Squad. You kill 9 Marines. Without, you kill about 4. vs Terminators, they fail about TWO. You therefore have to be using FIVE units, all with LoS and range, without ANY other considerations. Well, that's just dandy. Go Taktix.

Units of 15 Guardians w/ DestrucLock and EML? Engage anything? Have you ever faced:
Fiends
TWC
Sternguard
AV14
Hounds of Khorne
Rough Riders
Tau (anything really)
Jetbikes
AV13
AV12
Shoota Boyz
Ork Bikes
Marine Bikes
Plague Marines
Lash
...etc etc.

Any of those things, and more besides, will hand you your posterior on a plate, Fearless or no. They don't have to break you, because Eldar troops are made of papier mache and broken dreams - sneeze at them and they fall over. Same applies to Banshees without Transport - but you are right, the lack of an Assault Vehicle really does hurt their usefulness. That's why, in the REAL WORLD, where we have ACTUAL competitiveness, not pseudo-Competitive Ard Boyz Prelims, the only Eldar Elite ever used is Fire Dragons.

RE: Vypers (my final point, I think, I apologise OP for taking up so much of your thread, but this is BASIC Eldar advice, and this other guy seems to want to see you tabled...I cannot claim to have any vested interest, but you asked for help, so here it is) - I call BS. Perhaps you've heard of Fritz, over at (formerly WoSH) Fritz40k? He's been taking Vypers since the dawn of time. We don't always agree on things, like Star Engines, in particular, or what turrets to use on said Vypers...but he's widely regarded as one of the best Eldar resources online. I may not have anything near the level of product saturation he has achieved, but I know my gak. Vypers, used well, are FAR superior to the other crap in the Codex, such as Hawks, Wraithguard, Artillery and most Phoenix Lords. They are also very much superior to Wraithlords.

Sorry - one more point...

Using your own limited experience to say that advice about something being bad is wrong, despite a couple of others saying YOU are the one that is wrong, and overwhelming mathematical evidence? Egotistical, at best.


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Lt Jkoll wrote:Ok so no wraithlords. How about 2 squads of 6 dragons both in falcons?


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(Truth be told I never liked them much. THey are only good for their hard to kill toughness and obvious primary targets)

MUCH better - but you have to drop other Elites for room.

The falcon is a good scoring gun boat if you keep it at range. The dragons needs to be upclose to do damage so Falcon+Dragons is a bad combo. You are much better of with a Serpent when carrying around your dragons.
A falcon sitting in tha back holding 5 DAs and thus being scoring can work well.


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Other than that you were pretty much spot on. Banshees should not be fielded. I never leave home without 3 Dragon squads (unless Im playing Marines )

So, points are tight here. I'm thinking ballpark right about now. Two (maybe 3) fire drgons squads 2 in serpents maxed out one in a falcon. Then two basic dire avenger squads in another two falcons. Then (thinkin 3) maxed dire avanger squads in wave serpents and then some where around 2 farseers and as many lance vypers as possible? Or are lance vypers too expensive.


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You seem to have some sound advice, I like vypers but they seem to be easy downable targets. Also I really like banshees but i do like fire dragons (you must understand, I started this army because of the planet strike white dwarf, I though the scorpion looked really cool) I do disagree with you not likeing blade storm exarchs, it is the most usability you can get from them, and they aren't terrible. You DON'T just throw them at terminators though, that is unless you hate your scoring units


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Maybe replace some of those DA totin falcons in favor of a prism

Falcons I can only offer one piece of advise: Overcosted. For them to be truly effective IMHO the only good combo is BL/EML, Holofields, 5 DA, and a Guide Farseer. At that point it becomes scoring and with guide it becomes a pretty hefty anti-tank option. At that point cost though you have to decide if you can get scoring units elsewhere and take a more cost effective heavy option. The Falcon becomes a good option when you need a Serpent for Harlequins since you can take the 5 DA in the Falcon then use they serpent choice for the said Harlequins.

Vypers are infact pretty squishie, if not used right. You have to protect them from melta attacks and use cover and angles to your advantage. I would be in the boat however that Lances are a pricey outfit for them. Basically consider them as Landspeeders, if you have ever shot at them you know that they can squish easily, but at the same time you have to hit the right damage result and the Pen rolls can always spit in your face.

I would not recommend Vypers for starting the army, but only after some practice.

I use Scatter Lasers on mine, 60 point is acceptable. Others prefer the dual Cannons - I think it's pretty much a wash, but prefer the range.

I usually only use one Falcon, and, like BlueDagger said, H-F, SS, BL and underslug Cannon (200 points) a DAVU (60) and Eldrad inside (210) - VERY expensive, but pretty darn good too.

I'm going to check out his blog, in fact, since his head seems screwed on the right way, lol.

I like Falcons, but overall, 2 Prisms is better IMO.

If you visit my blog (linked in sig) I did a post recently called What I Get out Of Playing Eldar - this had a suggestion for a starting Eldar list, if you're interested in what I'd more likely suggest. I don't want to directly link it, it's egotistical-seeming...but I will link a friend's blog, where he talks about Aspect Warriors overall. - http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2010/05/eldar-analysis-aspect-warriors-good-bad.html

Elessar fail thread.

While I agree IG88's advice was crumby... why the need for a rant?

Anyway, prisms are much better than falcons at this points level for a few reasons, and walkers are even better than them.

I like my walkers with scatter lasers, so they can take out lightly armored transports and walker squadrons. They can even outflank and get the rear AV of some tanks if your opponent isn't expecting it.

Dragons should not go in the falcon, as others have pointed out, also, it has a transport capacity of 6.

Scorpions can be good, though against certain lists, they won't do much, they still rank higher than banshees for me though.

I also prefer vanilla drop marines to space wolf drop marines.

Rant? I suppose, but 'rant' carries an implication of anger - I only felt profound disappointment...

I can give one more piece of advise though, don't make a list till you see the mission rules ;D

I won't be building my semi list till I see them to avoid internal debating myself into an early grave.

I don't really like walkers...to slow and squishy. A pair of prisms seems nice and then a falcon with some DA in it, just some basic stuff so it is scoring. How much do you guys like bikes?


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And how do you use scorpions, I want them so badly to be good


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I'm likeing the idea of two prisms. BTW I have played Eldar a bit, just not this scale. Also I haven't needed it to be honed to the very very best, so I know how to do stuff with vehicles and such, movement wise

Scorps are rather failcake without the element of surprise they are supposed to have. They get more attacks then banshees, but still granting armor saves means they typically won't get a first round massacre.

I personally never leave home without GJB. My typical config is 2 packs of 3 reg or 2 reg 1 cannon, lock with embolden and spear.

ya, I was thinking something like that.


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so what should I do with the 3rd elite slot? a 3rd full fire dragon squad with a serpent is too expensive

To each his own I guess, I have yet to have the things I listed fail me yet.

Blue Dagger, that 15 man guardian squad can engage (that means has even a chance to significantly damage) pretty much anything in that list you took the time to make. Even av 14, its called a witchblade son.

Drop pods can work butI would just react accordingly. Standard anti pod tactic, reserve or turtle up in a corner with max spacing, it works like a charm.

Oh yeah if my wraith lords in cover you need 3 vendetta's worth of fire to drop him if I roll average on saves with no fortune. That was an internet warrior line as far as I'm concerned.

You have to be careful of math hammering, that supposed to happen thing rarely does, most of the time the craziest things happen and games are altered by freak dice rolling quite often.

My post was left to get the guy thinking on his own not just listen to everybody spewing mech up. Everybody has there own ideas on here its just sad to always hear the same broken record.
I have enough eldar to field mech and none mech so its not like I don't have experience with both. More than one config works for them.

Go look at Darthdiggler's/Blackmoor's battle reports and you will see foot eldar displaying some of the very elements I listed beating everybody, even mech guard.

You got to remember mech guard has to go first to smoke an opponent, if I go first I'll stun/shake most of the threats which takes the wind out of that armies sails, AV 12 is easy to shake.

If any of the things we are discussing get him thinking out of the box than this has been a good discussion as far as I'm concerned.

You are correct foot eldar is viable if setup properly and can win matches. When people post they are asking for C&C on what thing will do the best for situation "X". For 'ard boyz in particular however Math Hammer, the only means you have to preparing statistically for a match when it come to list, states that foot eldar will have a significantly harder time winning a game over mech. Foot Eldar have glaring holes such as Assault Marine spam DA, Tunneling Nids, Lash, IG getting turn one, etc that statistically you will have serious issues, and when the poster is looking for a list that will win 'ard boyz 15 guardian packs will not. One assault and that squad is dead and you can only place counter charge so much.

On the internet warrior comment with Wraithlords, I own 3. Good luck banking on having terrain that will give you 50% cover.

Of course, once the senarious are posted then the list will then be best way to head

Correct you could make a footslog list then come to find out mission one and two give your opponent +1 battle point for each model that doesn't have a dedicated transport

Have you found the scenarios? BTW, how do you guys feel about swooping hawks?

I own about 5 Wraithlords tbh...I haven't found anything that can give them cover but my own models, and then really only a Grav Tank. As or getting cover against something 8" off the table? Sure...

Of course, getting him to think carefully about the list is ideal, the problem is that not all units are created equal, and time has not been kind to the Eldar.

Every Codex release shrinks our pool of competitive units further still.

Saying MechDar has 'had it's day' is going a little bit further than getting him to think outside the box, IMO.

As regards Hawks - they are the worst unit in the Codex, and I include Vibro Cannons in that sweeping statement.

Far from the truth, worst unit in the codex defiantly belongs to the Failnix Lords. Swooping hawks CAN be good, but they are a typically too pricey for what they provide. I field them all the time because A) I like their look B) I centered my craftworld's fluff around them and C) 3 units of hawks rubberhawking is a giggle lol.

Autarch with SHW, PW, and Fusion gun
1x 4 Hawks + Exarch with Skyleap and Hawks Talon
2x 4 Hawks + Exarch with Skyleap and Sunrifle

546pts you get 3 unlimited range S4 AP5 blasts per turn, land and mass pea shooter fire a target off an objective final turn, force an opponent to constant watch their backs for fear of melta, if for some unknown reason they don't die upon hitting the ground you can assault the following turn with haywires, and all around annoy the piss outta your opponent. That all being said, they are definitely not a cost effective unit is the slightest but far from the worst in the dex. Don't even fathom taking them to 'ard boyz.

Okay, okay, Baharroth is the worst, then Hawks?