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So I was reading my codex last night and of course in conjunction with the FAQ, Rending on Canis seems kind of useless. But I got to thinking, he has twin wolf claws, but does he have to use them in close combat? I am at work now, so am not sure if he can elect to just not use his lightning claws and thus have normal attacks use Rending.

I am wondering this since against armor, he would be able to have 7 attacks on the charge against an armored target, and any 6's would add d3 to his armor pen with strength 5. So that would be:

Str5+d6+d3= AV6-AV14 possible armor penetration.

Whereas if he just use a krak grenade:

6+d6= AV7-AV12 possible armor penetration.

He wouldn't get re-rolls to hit or penetrate since those are characteristics of wolf claws, but it seems that the Rending rule is still valid against armor.

You only get the extra d3 if you roll a six, so you threat is AV6-AV14

Also you don't get the rending when using grenades.

jbunny wrote:You only get the extra d3 if you roll a six, so you threat is AV6-AV14

Also you don't get the rending when using grenades.

Got it corrected.

And krak grenades are listed as

6+d6

So I didn't add rending to them.

You don't get to roll an extra dice for the "rending pen" if you roll a 1 on the die roll for Armor Penetration.

You only get the extra d3 for rending if you roll a "6" on the original armor penetration roll.

Brother Ramses wrote:
Str5, roll a 1 for normal armor pen, and then roll a 1 for rending pen, which would be 5+1+1=7

You don't get to roll to d3 for Rending unless you already rolled a 6 for normal Armor Penetration.

Saldiven wrote:You don't get to roll an extra dice for the "rending pen" if you roll a 1 on the die roll for Armor Penetration.

You only get the extra d3 for rending if you roll a "6" on the original armor penetration roll.

Ahh, I see where I messed up. I stand corrected.

Edited 'cuz my forum-fu is weak.

Brother Ramses wrote:

jbunny wrote:You only get the extra d3 if you roll a six, so you threat is AV6-AV14

Also you don't get the rending when using grenades.

Yea, I got that but you could have,

Str5, roll a 1 for normal armor pen, and then roll a 1 for rending pen, which would be 5+1+1=7

or you could have,

Str5, roll a 6 for armor pen, and then roll a 6 for rending pen, which would be 5+6+3=14

And krak grenades are listed as

6+d6

So I didn't add rending to them.

You seem to have misunderstood how rending works.

Rending only gives a bonus D3 if you roll a 6 for your initial roll.

So, S5 with Rending means you could roll:
5+1
5+2
5+3
5+4
5+5
5+6+1
5+6+2
5+6+3

Meaning you have a Threat Range of 6-14, with the added bonus of it being physically impossible for you to cause a Glancing hit on rear AV11.

It's pretty much agreed that you can do this; however, this should be a last ditch effort to take down armor. For example, if Canis is taking on a Walker in Combat you may as well write him off as the Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon is going to insta-kill him if he gets hit.

Now if you have 1 Land Raider that's being a pain in the dick and nothing else can do the job, then why not throw him in there? Sure it may not be the ideal situation; however, it can stop the bugger.

Brother Ramses wrote: But I got to thinking, he has twin wolf claws, but does he have to use them in close combat? I am at work now, so am not sure if he can elect to just not use his lightning claws and thus have normal attacks use Rending.

The assault rules specify that models with special weapons will use them in close combat. There is no option to 'turn off' weapons and use a normal attack instead in the current edition.

Except rending only applies to special weapons, so if his rending does anything he has a special rending weapon as well as the claws.

I'd agree that it's to give him a chance when faced with a tank or other vehicle. Can't see too much point in it otherwise.

That's the thing, there actually is no point. There are always arguments over whether models have to use their special weapons, especially with characters like Calgar and Eldrad. There really isn't a way to turn off the weapons by RaW, although there are instances where it seems like it should be possible. Long story, short, Canis can't use his Rending.

Except if he has two special weapons (which his "noirmal" CCW with rending IS, by definition) he never turns off the claws, just chooses which to use.

They should have just stated they rend, like Shrike....

He only has Rending because of his Thunderwolf mount, and his Rending is ignored when attacking with special CCWs, which he is forced to do. Rending's worthless on him until they somehow allow you to turn off special ccws.

Except as was pointed out - rending ONLY exists as either a ranged or special CCW: there is no "rending USR" you can add to weapons.

Rending is not a special rule on its own, so it has to be attached to something.

Silly RAW thread is thataway.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Silly RAW thread is thataway.

Because having a useless ability is obiously not *silly RAW*

tedurur wrote:
Because having a useless ability is obiously not *silly RAW*

It's not.

Having a useless ability is from a writer who doesn't know the rules that well.

But apparently in this case the writer does know the rules as have been pointed out by Nosferatu

tedurur wrote:But apparently in this case the writer does know the rules as have been pointed out by Nosferatu

Show me what weapon of Canis' has the Rending rule.

As Written, Canis himself has the rule.

tedurur wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Silly RAW thread is thataway.

Because having a useless ability is obiously not *silly RAW*

No, he can't use his rending because of the thunderwolf rules. To say that a unit that has the special rule "Rending" (like TWC do) can't use it is silly RAW.