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In reading over some other forums, I've come across a very disturbing little piece of information that's news to me.

Is it true that in the new BA codex, the Necrons and BA form a temporary alliance to fight off a Tyranid horde, then part ways peacefully?

WTF.

Bow to your spiritual liege matt ward..

If by "part ways peacefully" you mean "were both so badly beaten up that trying to resume their original conflict would have served only to destroy them both for no gain" then yes, they part ways peacefully.

Long story short? Yes.

It's probably the worst piece of fluff I've seen, and I really like BA. =[

Xyptc wrote:If by "part ways peacefully" you mean "were both so badly beaten up that trying to resume their original conflict would have served only to destroy them both for no gain" then yes, they part ways peacefully.

Why the Blood Angels wouldn't: The Blood Angels are fanatics driven by insatiable bloodlust who shouldn't be breaking peacefully with soulless automatons that slaughter planetary populations for no reason or harvest them for C'tan chow. Oh, and they're Xenos. I think the Blood Angels would have no problem dying in battle to destroy an enemy like that.

Why the Necrons wouldn't: Why were they fighting the Tyranids in the first place, instead of just teleporting out? That would hurt both of their enemies without personal risk. Also, they were "battle weary," despite being... Soulless automatons.

I really think it hurts the perception of both groups. The scary, implacable Necrons are suddenly our friends, while the Blood Angels let some omnicidal xenos go.

If I play Blood Angels, can I take Necron Allies now?

Nakis wrote:If I play Blood Angels, can I take Necron Allies now?

If you're playing Apocalypse, sure.

For normal games, you're stuck with the units in the Army List.



It's just a piece of fluff. In a vast universe that's constantly at war, strange things sometimes happen.

Necroman wrote:
Why the Blood Angels wouldn't: The Blood Angels are fanatics driven by insatiable bloodlust who shouldn't be breaking peacefully with soulless automatons that slaughter planetary populations for no reason or harvest them for C'tan chow.

The Blood Angels are not "fanatics driven by insatiable bloodlust". They are a proud, martial Chapter steeped in honour and codes of conduct. They do however have a terrible psychic-genetic flaw which overcomes some of their number on the eve of battle, and it is these individuals who comprise the Death Company and are noted for having really given in to bloodlust. The rest of the chapter as a whole is not stupid, and aren't going to throw themselves into a blender just because it's there. These are Space Marines, not the 529th Cadian Regiment of Expendability and Ineptitude.

Necroman wrote:
I think the Blood Angels would have no problem dying in battle to destroy an enemy like that.

The suicidal charge and futile last stand are over-played in WH40k, and recent fluff is keen to show that. If there was a better way, the Blood Angels might take it. There is no glory or honour in pointless defeat - rarely would the reality of the war be so simple as a blob of Blood Angels and a blob of Necrons finding themselves next to one another and blindly screaming "RAAARGH!!" as they engage in a battle which will likely accomplish very little.

This brings us to the nature of the "truce" and their combined attacks on the Tyranids - it needn't have been a joint frontal assault with Tactical Marines rubbing shoulders with Necron Immortals you know. Necron and Astartes may well have been locked in combat and then both pulled back when the Hive Fleet descended, and from that point on they simply switched their targets and didn't really come into much contact with one another. We don't know either way, but there are plenty of scenarios like this I can think up off the top of my head to rationalise what we're told.

Necroman wrote:
Why the Necrons wouldn't: Why were they fighting the Tyranids in the first place, instead of just teleporting out? That would hurt both of their enemies without personal risk.

- The Tyranid Fleet was going to sweep through those worlds and consume a minor species important to the C'tan.
- The Tyranid Fleet was going to strip that world, which contained important Necron technology that they cannot afford to lose.
- The Tyranid Fleet was going to strip that world, and the Necron Lord dimly recalls that this was once a world he was charged with defending above all else.
- The Tyranid Fleet was going to strip that world and would have grown exponentially larger - the Necrons, being intelligent and pragmatic, calculated that they needed to stop the Fleet there and then, but lacked the forces themselves to do so.
- The next planet along the Tyranid Fleet's path is a key site for the Pariah gene project, and needed to be protected from harm.
- The Necron Lord retains some semblance of his original personality, to be specific a sense of honour and respect for a worthy foe - in this case, the Blood Angel forces.

Seriously, take your pick or come up with some more. I cannot believe you cannot come up with something to justify a fairly non-specific piece of fluff in a setting as diverse as WH40k.

Necroman wrote: Also, they were "battle weary," despite being... Soulless automatons.

Why must battle-weary mean tired and suffering from trench foot? Perhaps the Necron forces on the planet sutained massive damage from the Tyranid attacks, had limited ability or capacity to self-repair in the numbers required to re-launch their campaign and were generally in a bad tactical position? The average tank in Afghanistan doesn't get "tired", but it certainly wears away in battle and simply through general use - just because the Necrons are machines doesn't mean they are automatically perfect forever. We are not given enough information about the situation for you to be writing it off.

Necroman wrote:
I really think it hurts the perception of both groups. The scary, implacable Necrons are suddenly our friends, while the Blood Angels let some omnicidal xenos go.

I think the PlanetOfHats treatment you're giving each of the factions in question is far more damaging to how each race is perceived. It's a big universe and almost anything can happen, yet you're unwilling to move beyond all Astartes needing to purge all filthy xenos, ever, and all Necrons being nothing but mindless robots that march around shooting things because... that's what they do. The Blood Angels can still be a xenophobic chapter bringing the Emperor's Light to the darkness, and the Necrons can still be omnicidal machines - it simply turns out that, under certain circumstances, they are capable of more than simple one-dimensional behaviour.

Xyptc wrote:The Blood Angels are not "fanatics driven by insatiable bloodlust". They are a proud, martial Chapter steeped in honour and codes of conduct. They do however have a terrible psychic-genetic flaw which overcomes some of their number on the eve of battle, and it is these individuals who comprise the Death Company and are noted for having really given in to bloodlust. The rest of the chapter as a whole is not stupid, and aren't going to throw themselves into a blender just because it's there. These are Space Marines, not the 529th Cadian Regiment of Expendability and Ineptitude.

Well, that explains things.

I was thinking of space marines in general, though, when I said "fanatics driven by insatiable bloodlust." Compared to a lot more pragmatic heads, they tend to be that.

Xyptc wrote:The suicidal charge and futile last stand are over-played in WH40k, and recent fluff is keen to show that. If there was a better way, the Blood Angels might take it. There is no glory or honour in pointless defeat - rarely would the reality of the war be so simple as a blob of Blood Angels and a blob of Necrons finding themselves next to one another and blindly screaming "RAAARGH!!" as they engage in a battle which will likely accomplish very little.

This brings us to the nature of the "truce" and their combined attacks on the Tyranids - it needn't have been a joint frontal assault with Tactical Marines rubbing shoulders with Necron Immortals you know. Necron and Astartes may well have been locked in combat and then both pulled back when the Hive Fleet descended, and from that point on they simply switched their targets and didn't really come into much contact with one another. We don't know either way, but there are plenty of scenarios like this I can think up off the top of my head to rationalise what we're told.

I recall the book's description being vague there.

Xyptc wrote:- The Tyranid Fleet was going to sweep through those worlds and consume a minor species important to the C'tan.
- The Tyranid Fleet was going to strip that world, which contained important Necron technology that they cannot afford to lose.
- The Tyranid Fleet was going to strip that world, and the Necron Lord dimly recalls that this was once a world he was charged with defending above all else.
- The Tyranid Fleet was going to strip that world and would have grown exponentially larger - the Necrons, being intelligent and pragmatic, calculated that they needed to stop the Fleet there and then, but lacked the forces themselves to do so.
- The next planet along the Tyranid Fleet's path is a key site for the Pariah gene project, and needed to be protected from harm.
- The Necron Lord retains some semblance of his original personality, to be specific a sense of honour and respect for a worthy foe - in this case, the Blood Angel forces.

Seriously, take your pick or come up with some more. I cannot believe you cannot come up with something to justify a fairly non-specific piece of fluff in a setting as diverse as WH40k.

Well, you've certainly come up with good options. Only problem I can think of is that a lot of these don't necessarily mean the Necrons have to fight with the Blood Angels; if they were intent on protecting another planet, it seems more practical to go over there and let the Blood Angels soften up the enemy first.

I think the main problem IS that it's non-specific. We don't know what happened other than the basic details, and the basic details on their own look a bit ridiculous at first glance.

Xyptc wrote:Why must battle-weary mean tired and suffering from trench foot? Perhaps the Necron forces on the planet sutained massive damage from the Tyranid attacks, had limited ability or capacity to self-repair in the numbers required to re-launch their campaign and were generally in a bad tactical position? The average tank in Afghanistan doesn't get "tired", but it certainly wears away in battle and simply through general use - just because the Necrons are machines doesn't mean they are automatically perfect forever. We are not given enough information about the situation for you to be writing it off.

Battle-weary just seems to indicate tired to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

Weary according to the Random House Webster's Dictionary...
-Physically or mentally exhausted, fatigued, tired

Course, that's only normal weary.

And I doubt healing metal will suffer much from the same problems that typically cause tanks to break down (Elements, general wear through use of metal parts, rust). Battle damage is certainly a far greater problem, but I'm not sure if that counts as battle-weary.

Ah well, could just be a random misuse of the word.

Xyptc wrote:I think the PlanetOfHats treatment you're giving each of the factions in question is far more damaging to how each race is perceived. It's a big universe and almost anything can happen, yet you're unwilling to move beyond all Astartes needing to purge all filthy xenos, ever,

But that's the problem: Astartes purge xenos. They ARE a planet of hats. The ones who are not are an exception to the rule. Do Orks fight for fun? Yes. Am I giving them a planet of hats treatment? No, they already come that way.

Although that could be balanced out by your first explanation: Astartes aren't stupid, they won't get themselves killed.

Xyptc wrote: and all Necrons being nothing but mindless robots that march around shooting things because... that's what they do.

The problem is, that is what they do (Or they harvest). Saying otherwise is like saying the Tyranids don't just consume everything. Once again, there's exceptions to the rule (My own Necron fluff probably counts as an exception), yet the book neglects to say much on the matter.

Xyptc wrote: The Blood Angels can still be a xenophobic chapter bringing the Emperor's Light to the darkness, and the Necrons can still be omnicidal machines - it simply turns out that, under certain circumstances, they are capable of more than simple one-dimensional behaviour.

Under the circumstances you brought up, seems possible.

Thanks for explaining a bit more. I think that if there had been a bit more detail given in the story, it would have made sense, but one paragraph doesn't really reveal much.

Xyptc wrote:

Necroman wrote:
Why the Blood Angels wouldn't: The Blood Angels are fanatics driven by insatiable bloodlust who shouldn't be breaking peacefully with soulless automatons that slaughter planetary populations for no reason or harvest them for C'tan chow.

The Blood Angels are not "fanatics driven by insatiable bloodlust". They are a proud, martial Chapter steeped in honour and codes of conduct. They do however have a terrible psychic-genetic flaw which overcomes some of their number on the eve of battle, and it is these individuals who comprise the Death Company and are noted for having really given in to bloodlust. The rest of the chapter as a whole is not stupid, and aren't going to throw themselves into a blender just because it's there. These are Space Marines, not the 529th Cadian Regiment of Expendability and Ineptitude.

Necroman wrote:
I think the Blood Angels would have no problem dying in battle to destroy an enemy like that.

The suicidal charge and futile last stand are over-played in WH40k, and recent fluff is keen to show that. If there was a better way, the Blood Angels might take it. There is no glory or honour in pointless defeat - rarely would the reality of the war be so simple as a blob of Blood Angels and a blob of Necrons finding themselves next to one another and blindly screaming "RAAARGH!!" as they engage in a battle which will likely accomplish very little.

This brings us to the nature of the "truce" and their combined attacks on the Tyranids - it needn't have been a joint frontal assault with Tactical Marines rubbing shoulders with Necron Immortals you know. Necron and Astartes may well have been locked in combat and then both pulled back when the Hive Fleet descended, and from that point on they simply switched their targets and didn't really come into much contact with one another. We don't know either way, but there are plenty of scenarios like this I can think up off the top of my head to rationalise what we're told.

Necroman wrote:
Why the Necrons wouldn't: Why were they fighting the Tyranids in the first place, instead of just teleporting out? That would hurt both of their enemies without personal risk.

- The Tyranid Fleet was going to sweep through those worlds and consume a minor species important to the C'tan.
- The Tyranid Fleet was going to strip that world, which contained important Necron technology that they cannot afford to lose.
- The Tyranid Fleet was going to strip that world, and the Necron Lord dimly recalls that this was once a world he was charged with defending above all else.
- The Tyranid Fleet was going to strip that world and would have grown exponentially larger - the Necrons, being intelligent and pragmatic, calculated that they needed to stop the Fleet there and then, but lacked the forces themselves to do so.
- The next planet along the Tyranid Fleet's path is a key site for the Pariah gene project, and needed to be protected from harm.
- The Necron Lord retains some semblance of his original personality, to be specific a sense of honour and respect for a worthy foe - in this case, the Blood Angel forces.

Seriously, take your pick or come up with some more. I cannot believe you cannot come up with something to justify a fairly non-specific piece of fluff in a setting as diverse as WH40k.

Necroman wrote: Also, they were "battle weary," despite being... Soulless automatons.

Why must battle-weary mean tired and suffering from trench foot? Perhaps the Necron forces on the planet sutained massive damage from the Tyranid attacks, had limited ability or capacity to self-repair in the numbers required to re-launch their campaign and were generally in a bad tactical position? The average tank in Afghanistan doesn't get "tired", but it certainly wears away in battle and simply through general use - just because the Necrons are machines doesn't mean they are automatically perfect forever. We are not given enough information about the situation for you to be writing it off.

Necroman wrote:
I really think it hurts the perception of both groups. The scary, implacable Necrons are suddenly our friends, while the Blood Angels let some omnicidal xenos go.

I think the PlanetOfHats treatment you're giving each of the factions in question is far more damaging to how each race is perceived. It's a big universe and almost anything can happen, yet you're unwilling to move beyond all Astartes needing to purge all filthy xenos, ever, and all Necrons being nothing but mindless robots that march around shooting things because... that's what they do. The Blood Angels can still be a xenophobic chapter bringing the Emperor's Light to the darkness, and the Necrons can still be omnicidal machines - it simply turns out that, under certain circumstances, they are capable of more than simple one-dimensional behaviour.

-Nothing is important to the C'Tan. Not even their "founders" the Necrontyr got special treatment (well kind of as you can tell by the current menace...).
-See above.
-Necron Lords aren't possessed of pride and arrogance like us mere humans. They were not completely mind-fethed due to their calculating and steely demeanor. Cold hard logic would apply here in which the necron lord would be like "YEah gak guys, this isn't going so well....phase ouuuuut."
-The Necrons are timeless. What is one world in comparison to the thousands they've ravaged?
-The Pariah point is the closest I would agree with but even still, what is one planet to the thousands of others they have access to? Surely there must be other planets and logic would dictate that hey, these tyranids attacking it? These space marines over there too? Too much trouble. Let's go find or use another planet.
-There is no honor with the Necrontyr. They willingly gave their souls to the C'tan in a bitter, spiteful deal to wipe out all life in the galaxy. Honor and all of that meaningless jazz means nothing to the implacable, steel automatons (even Necron Lords).

And yes. A pathetic human tank does get overcome with wear and tear over a while....the Necrons? Uhmmmmm, I do not think so. Let's see: They've been around since the Old Ones and single handedly waged a war against them (albeit a losing one, but COME ON! The Old Ones for feths sake!). They have the "backing" of the C'tan, literal gods, and all of the knowledge and technology that came with that. Really that is all that needs to be said. If a Necron army who faces off against a company or two of Space Marines just repairs itself, gets back up and keeps grinding on, I doubt they have to do much preventative maintenance.

The Necrons ARE single-minded, soulless robots who kill for their dark masters lust of souls. The Space Marines are always a variable (look at the Soul Drinkers) and I love that in them. They are human and are prone to that ultimate variable of behavior. Necrons aren't. Pure and simple.

This "fluff" is gay. If it had been "The blood angels ran away to preserve their fighting force from further losses" or "The Blood angels called the inquisition and stayed long enough on planetside to hold the necrons until the ordo xenos showed up with exterminatus" that would be acceptable. Necrons and Blood Angels parting the battlefield in a stupid type of "truce"? Gay.

Note: I still dislike the fluff from the Blood Angels codex. An alliance with the Necrons is not something you can just lightly skip over; you'd better have a pretty damn good reason provided already. We fans can speculate, but it should've been Ward's job to explain.

Firesolved wrote:-Nothing is important to the C'Tan. Not even their "founders" the Necrontyr got special treatment (well kind of as you can tell by the current menace...).

A minor species could play into the Deceiver's plans. There was a story like that in the codex; he eventually had them killed, though.

And as for technology, the C'tan certainly wouldn't mind warp-destroying stuff.

Firesolved wrote:-Necron Lords aren't possessed of pride and arrogance like us mere humans. They were not completely mind-fethed due to their calculating and steely demeanor. Cold hard logic would apply here in which the necron lord would be like "YEah gak guys, this isn't going so well....phase ouuuuut."

While I agree Necron Lords are calculating, you must remember that A. They still possess their original personalities, and B. A few of them became nutjobs in all their centuries asleep. And the Necron Lords were capes; sure sign of arrogance there.

Firesolved wrote:-The Necrons are timeless. What is one world in comparison to the thousands they've ravaged?

One world could contain a lot of souls to harvest.

Firesolved wrote:-The Pariah point is the closest I would agree with but even still, what is one planet to the thousands of others they have access to? Surely there must be other planets and logic would dictate that hey, these tyranids attacking it? These space marines over there too? Too much trouble. Let's go find or use another planet.

Pariah gene is rare.

Which means the original point is moot too; there should be no planet where the pariah gene is concentrated, as it was distributed through the entire human population. The only place that would really now be important is a place where the people with the pariah gene are transformed into Pariahs, but there's no reason to assume that's limited to one world what with all the Necron's tech.

Firesolved wrote:-There is no honor with the Necrontyr. They willingly gave their souls to the C'tan in a bitter, spiteful deal to wipe out all life in the galaxy. Honor and all of that meaningless jazz means nothing to the implacable, steel automatons (even Necron Lords).

Honor could mean something still to a few lords.

Firesolved wrote:And yes. A pathetic human tank does get overcome with wear and tear over a while....the Necrons? Uhmmmmm, I do not think so. Let's see: They've been around since the Old Ones and single handedly waged a war against them (albeit a losing one, but COME ON! The Old Ones for feths sake!). They have the "backing" of the C'tan, literal gods, and all of the knowledge and technology that came with that. Really that is all that needs to be said. If a Necron army who faces off against a company or two of Space Marines just repairs itself, gets back up and keeps grinding on, I doubt they have to do much preventative maintenance.

Agreed here. Necrons survived for millennia with no problems. They can work in adverse conditions just fine (For example, in the freezing conditions in Caves of Ice). Plus, their healing metal will repair any minor damage.

Firesolved wrote:The Necrons ARE single-minded, soulless robots who kill for their dark masters lust of souls. The Space Marines are always a variable (look at the Soul Drinkers) and I love that in them. They are human and are prone to that ultimate variable of behavior. Necrons aren't. Pure and simple.

Well, the Necrons actually have two functions.
-Kill everything made by the Old Ones
-If commanded by the C'tan, harvest souls

However, as we all know, the Necron lord retains a bit of his sanity, so that could justify the Necrons working in odd ways. Still, that sort of thing is the exception to the rule.

Firesolved wrote:This "fluff" is gay. If it had been "The blood angels ran away to preserve their fighting force from further losses" or "The Blood angels called the inquisition and stayed long enough on planetside to hold the necrons until the ordo xenos showed up with exterminatus" that would be acceptable. Necrons and Blood Angels parting the battlefield in a stupid type of "truce"? Gay.

Or, even better, Matt Ward could have explained what the feth was going through his mind. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to in the length of such a brief story.

I think the guy bit off more than he could chew, or just thought the idea of the Blood Angels working with the Crons was somehow awesome.

Bottom line...

Could happen when the proper number of 'if's aligned, but is a poor choice for a codex piece as it is so questionable in nature AND serves no real purpose.

Necroman wrote:Note: I still dislike the fluff from the Blood Angels codex. An alliance with the Necrons is not something you can just lightly skip over; you'd better have a pretty damn good reason provided already. We fans can speculate, but it should've been Ward's job to explain.

Firesolved wrote:-Nothing is important to the C'Tan. Not even their "founders" the Necrontyr got special treatment (well kind of as you can tell by the current menace...).

A minor species could play into the Deceiver's plans. There was a story like that in the codex; he eventually had them killed, though.

And as for technology, the C'tan certainly wouldn't mind warp-destroying stuff.

What would an example of "Warp destroying stuff" be? More importantly, what could someone else have that they already don't?

Firesolved wrote:-Necron Lords aren't possessed of pride and arrogance like us mere humans. They were not completely mind-fethed due to their calculating and steely demeanor. Cold hard logic would apply here in which the necron lord would be like "YEah gak guys, this isn't going so well....phase ouuuuut."

While I agree Necron Lords are calculating, you must remember that A. They still possess their original personalities, and B. A few of them became nutjobs in all their centuries asleep. And the Necron Lords were capes; sure sign of arrogance there.

They retain portions of their original personalities. Nutjobs wouldn't "run" from Space Marines. Capes=awesome.

Firesolved wrote:-The Necrons are timeless. What is one world in comparison to the thousands they've ravaged?

One world could contain a lot of souls to harvest.

So could a Tau colony. Or even a craftworld. Hell even an asteroid full of da boyz would be a better option than to pit your forces between tyranids and space marines. The point is that, logically (where the necrons are cocnerned), they could have consolidated and phased out before taking losses and went to another world that was less defended and then came back to mop up the winners of that one fight.

Firesolved wrote:-The Pariah point is the closest I would agree with but even still, what is one planet to the thousands of others they have access to? Surely there must be other planets and logic would dictate that hey, these tyranids attacking it? These space marines over there too? Too much trouble. Let's go find or use another planet.

Pariah gene is rare.

Which means the original point is moot too; there should be no planet where the pariah gene is concentrated, as it was distributed through the entire human population. The only place that would really now be important is a place where the people with the pariah gene are transformed into Pariahs, but there's no reason to assume that's limited to one world what with all the Necron's tech.

Exactly.

Firesolved wrote:-There is no honor with the Necrontyr. They willingly gave their souls to the C'tan in a bitter, spiteful deal to wipe out all life in the galaxy. Honor and all of that meaningless jazz means nothing to the implacable, steel automatons (even Necron Lords).

Honor could mean something still to a few lords.

Name one who still calls upon honor in battle.

Firesolved wrote:And yes. A pathetic human tank does get overcome with wear and tear over a while....the Necrons? Uhmmmmm, I do not think so. Let's see: They've been around since the Old Ones and single handedly waged a war against them (albeit a losing one, but COME ON! The Old Ones for feths sake!). They have the "backing" of the C'tan, literal gods, and all of the knowledge and technology that came with that. Really that is all that needs to be said. If a Necron army who faces off against a company or two of Space Marines just repairs itself, gets back up and keeps grinding on, I doubt they have to do much preventative maintenance.

Agreed here. Necrons survived for millennia with no problems. They can work in adverse conditions just fine (For example, in the freezing conditions in Caves of Ice). Plus, their healing metal will repair any minor damage.

Yus.

Firesolved wrote:The Necrons ARE single-minded, soulless robots who kill for their dark masters lust of souls. The Space Marines are always a variable (look at the Soul Drinkers) and I love that in them. They are human and are prone to that ultimate variable of behavior. Necrons aren't. Pure and simple.

Well, the Necrons actually have two functions.
-Kill everything made by the Old Ones
-If commanded by the C'tan, harvest souls

However, as we all know, the Necron lord retains a bit of his sanity, so that could justify the Necrons working in odd ways. Still, that sort of thing is the exception to the rule.

Their first objective could be thought of as "kill all living things". Sooooo yeah. And to capitalize on that, the first is just the means to the second. Kill bodies, harvest souls. YUM!

Firesolved wrote:This "fluff" is gay. If it had been "The blood angels ran away to preserve their fighting force from further losses" or "The Blood angels called the inquisition and stayed long enough on planetside to hold the necrons until the ordo xenos showed up with exterminatus" that would be acceptable. Necrons and Blood Angels parting the battlefield in a stupid type of "truce"? Gay.

Or, even better, Matt Ward could have explained what the feth was going through his mind. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to in the length of such a brief story.

I think the guy bit off more than he could chew, or just thought the idea of the Blood Angels working with the Crons was somehow awesome.

If he thought it was awesome, he is a slow. It was overplayed, lame and fething stupid.

Firesolved wrote:What would an example of "Warp destroying stuff" be? More importantly, what could someone else have that they already don't?

Could be a specialized pylon.

Problem is, once again, it's a big if.

Firesolved wrote:They retain portions of their original personalities. Nutjobs wouldn't "run" from Space Marines. Capes=awesome.

They would leave it was coldly logical. And the reason Lords wear capes is because they know it's awesome.

Firesolved wrote:So could a Tau colony. Or even a craftworld. Hell even an asteroid full of da boyz would be a better option than to pit your forces between tyranids and space marines. The point is that, logically (where the necrons are cocnerned), they could have consolidated and phased out before taking losses and went to another world that was less defended and then came back to mop up the winners of that one fight.

Alright, gotta give you that.

Firesolved wrote:Their first objective could be thought of as "kill all living things". Sooooo yeah. And to capitalize on that, the first is just the means to the second. Kill bodies, harvest souls. YUM!

Yum indeed! However, don't the bodies have to be alive to harvest the souls? Otherwise, the souls just go to feed Chaos.

Firesolved wrote:If he thought it was awesome, he is a slow. It was overplayed, lame and fething stupid.

Well, at least it wasn't Marneus Calgar punching through an avatar.

Okay,

All the quoting just got the better of me

UrbanCowboy wrote:Bottom line...

Could happen when the proper number of 'if's aligned, but is a poor choice for a codex piece as it is so questionable in nature AND serves no real purpose.

If only to show the BA's ... Honour. (Not the exact word I was looking for but close enough)

But then again, the Necrons are NECRONS. And any Space Marine commander regardless of chapter would/should hunt them mercilessly, knowing the havoc that they have caused in the past. Read the Horus Heresy series. Space Marines have an utter LOATHING for xenos.

Also, as far as I was aware, (I may be wrong here) I thought the Necrons had completely lost their minds and souls over the long years, and now only live to serve the C'Tan by harvesting souls, also, as mentioned above, the necrons are timeless. What difference would losing a small phalanx of troups make to them? They could just return to the planet to retrieve whatever it was they were there for in the first place, and gather the ones who fell.

Which is a good point as to why the BA wouldn't let them go, if they were to return, it would be in far greater numbers - including the ones who left.

Guys, you are realizing that the writer was Matt Ward right? The reason the fluff in the sm and blood angel codex is stupid is...well just read my sig.

Munch Munch! wrote:Guys, you are realizing that the writer was Matt Ward right? The reason the fluff in the sm and blood angel codex is stupid is...well just read my sig.

Lol.

That's all I have to say to that. Lol.

Do the authors of the Horus Heresy series write codex's at all? If not, I think they should, or at least for the fluff. Horus Heresy books = EPIC.

ridiculous


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Necroman wrote:
The Blood Angels are fanatics driven by insatiable bloodlust

This kind of savagery is more suited to something like Space Wolves.

Blood Angels are proud but with a weakness.

I would like to point out that, despite my arguing to "make the fluff work", I would whole-heartedly agree that at best that particular entry could have been much better thought out and penned, at worst is out of place to the point of being confusing.

On the other hand, it's there and we're stuck with it. I for one would rather try and make it work somehow, even if that involves a little more imagination than we're used to (not necessarily a bad thing - we're all far too keen to be spoon-fed 'facts' in our GW fluff) rather than simply sitting and complaining.


It's an iffy fluff entry, but it can be made to work if you want it too. I'd rather work a little and be happy than simply draw a line under it and be miserable. Each to their own of course.

Necroman wrote:Well, at least it wasn't Marneus Calgar punching through an avatar.

In summary, yes.

Well played, sir. Well played.

ductvader wrote:This kind of savagery is more suited to something like Space Wolves.

Blood Angels are proud but with a weakness.

Yeah, I kinda messed up there.

I was trying to talk about the zeal Space Marines in general felt, not the Blood Angels in particular. Sorry.

I'd say that little piece of fluff is intended to help steer the necrons in a different way when their new codex comes out. Reason being is that when the new Necron codex does come out and some of their fluff is noticably changed, there will be other examples of it in other texts to support it.

This example plus the Necrons in the book Hellforged make me think that Necrons are being changed to where many of the lords keep alot of their sentience and free will.

LordRavvage wrote: This example plus the Necrons in the book Hellforged make me think that Necrons are being changed to where many of the lords keep alot of their sentience and free will.

I'm actually fine with that.

However, if you want to keep a species intimidating, you don't have them play carebear friends with another group without a damn good reason. There's plenty of other ways to show independence, and I don't think a story that is supposed to change one group's fluff should be included in another faction's codex.

After that many years? Surely they'd also be driven just a TINY bit insane by that, hell, anyone would.

I think a more feasible option would have been that maybe the Hive Minds presence messed with their heads or summit,

Bear in mind people this is me just throwing s*** out there!

ExarchCain wrote:After that many years? Surely they'd also be driven just a TINY bit insane by that, hell, anyone would.

I think a more feasible option would have been that maybe the Hive Minds presence messed with their heads or summit,

Bear in mind people this is me just throwing s*** out there!

Hive mind? What?

And being insane doesn't mean a lack of sentience or free will.

The Hive Mind had to be present to some degree, and would be felt most from the Synapse creatures. Drives Psykers and the likes crazy.

And being insane doesn't mean a lack of sentience or free will.

And that's not necessarily true, there are plenty of scenarios with Psychotic Murderers who kill, and keep doing so, despite the fact that they have "free will", and the reasons they give for killing people? "I couldn't help myself." nor could Police/Investigators find any clues as to why they would do some of the things they do.

They could at least have given us an explanation of a sort as to why the Necrons would just back off, "it would have been a waste of resources" just doesn't quite cut it for me.

And I was just throwing a random idea out there.

ExarchCain wrote:The Hive Mind had to be present to some degree, and would be felt most from the Synapse creatures. Drives Psykers and the likes crazy.

Whoops, misunderstood you. Thought you were saying the NECRONS have a hivemind, when you were talking about the Tyranid Hivemind.

ExarchCain wrote:And that's not necessarily true, there are plenty of scenarios with Psychotic Murderers who kill, and keep doing so, despite the fact that they have "free will", and the reasons they give for killing people? "I couldn't help myself." nor could Police/Investigators find any clues as to why they would do some of the things they do.

They could at least have given us an explanation of a sort as to why the Necrons would just back off, "it would have been a waste of resources" just doesn't quite cut it for me.

And I was just throwing a random idea out there.

Agreed.

Anyways, I think a much better way the story would have gone would be this.

The Necrons and Blood Angels are fighting, the Tyranids land. The Necron lord calls for a truce, and they start fighting nids because the Necrons are desperate to keep a portal open for their forces to teleport in, while the Blood angels know the Tyranid force is too large for one side alone to defeat. They win against the Tyranids, but the Necrons turn on the Blood Angels. The Death Company, outraged by this betrayal, attacks the Necron portal directly and destroys it at the cost of their lives, leaving the Necrons without reinforcements. The Necrons eventually lose, the Blood Angels eventually win.

There. Fits both sides better and makes both sides not look like numbskulls, serves a purpose, has the Blood Angels win in the end (This IS their codex), and uses a specific Blood Angels unit so that it can't just by any Space Marine chapter. Of course, it isn't written to be an actual story (More of a summary).

That, my friend, is how it SHOULD have ended, and how it's now going to end in my mind.

You consider being a loremaster for GW?

Necroman wrote:Anyways, I think a much better way the story would have gone would be this.

The Necrons and Blood Angels are fighting, the Tyranids land. The Necron lord calls for a truce, and they start fighting nids because the Necrons are desperate to keep a portal open for their forces to teleport in, while the Blood angels know the Tyranid force is too large for one side alone to defeat. They win against the Tyranids, but the Necrons turn on the Blood Angels. The Death Company, outraged by this betrayal, attacks the Necron portal directly and destroys it at the cost of their lives, leaving the Necrons without reinforcements. The Necrons eventually lose, the Blood Angels eventually win.

There. Fits both sides better and makes both sides not look like numbskulls, serves a purpose, has the Blood Angels win in the end (This IS their codex), and uses a specific Blood Angels unit so that it can't just by any Space Marine chapter. Of course, it isn't written to be an actual story (More of a summary).

Query: How about when the Necrons went to protect key assets, the Blood Angels simply decided to cover Necron movement with feints or to manage the Tyranids into the grills of the Necron (They be metal, yo. No teeth to speak. They got grillz.) in order to wear out the bugs. One side or the other delivered the final blow. Blood Angels withdraw due to too many Necrons now in the field, Necrons are preferable to 'nids, as a crushing blow on one planet to the bugs will hamper the effects on other systems in the vicinity, as far as I know. And the Necrons, in a Zapp Brannigan method of dealing with Killbots (They had an upper Kill limit. He shoved so many men at the bots that they all reached their limit and shut down.), but in opposite. No Blood Angels to pester the 'crons, no threats detected, current routine: sleep, engage.

Either that, or somehow hamsters in clear little balls were involved.

Or pixies.

Pixies are fun.