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so I play blood angels and it says under the feel no pain that all power weapons, AP 1 AP2 weapons and other things that go through armor such as difficult terrain checks power fists dreadnought close combat weapons and assault cannon rending hits est. so what does this mean that other things that go through power armor of my marine don't get feel no pain. I think this is another one of GW's rules as intended BS but please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong. Weapons which happen to negate a particular model's armor save do not negate Feel No Pain. Weapons which specifically prevent all armor saves, or are AP1 or AP2, or cause instant death negate Feel No Pain.

A marine in powered armor with Feel No Pain still gets to use Feel No Pain if the model gets shot by AP3.

If you cannot take an Armour Save, you do not get to make a FNP save. So, no, Marines cannot take one from a hit from an AP3 weapon.

Edit: Solkan, FNP rules state using it from any unsaved wounds. If you cannot take a save in the first place, you cannot use FNP.

Solkan has it correct.

The rules state that you cannot take a FNP save if:

The wound causes instant death

wounds from ap1 weapons

wounds from ap2 weapons

power weapons

any other wound against which no armor save can ever be taken (like wounds from power fists, DCCW, rending 6's, perils of the warp, failed DT tests, etc)

This does NOT include ap3 weapons, or ap4 weapons if your armor was 4, etc. It says "against which no armor save can EVER be taken". This means something that negates everyone/anyone's armor save. Not just if it happens to negate your personal armor save.

Arguing that it applies only to "unsaved" wounds is semantics at best. Just because you never rolled a save doesn't somehow make it not unsaved. Also, does this mean you can FNP if you took a cover save even if your armor save was negated?

*Self censored due to excessive sarcasm*

Ultra, you are incorrect.

The BRB says: "any wound against which no armour save can ever be taken". It then goes on to list a load of things that allow no armour save under any circumstance - power fist, rending, etc.

Note that list does NOT include "weapons with an AP higher than your armour".

AP3 weapons can be saved sometimes - e.g. if you have armour 2+ The only time AP affects FNP is when it's AP1 or AP2 because these can never be saved with armour (and are explicitly mentioned)

solkan wrote:*Self censored due to excessive sarcasm*

Sarcasm doesn't hurt, really I didn't mind

No, I'm not saying that - As I read the USR, it is saying that. The rules say you take a FNP from 'unsaved wounds', so I read that to mean you must try to make a save in the first place.

UltraPrime:

To help a little more, the rulebook on page 24 defines unsaved wounds under "remove casualties"

"For every model that fails its save, the unit suffers an unsaved wound. Of course this also includes wounds against no save can be attempted, such as those from weapons with very high AP."

lambadomy wrote:UltraPrime:

To help a little more, the rulebook on page 24 defines unsaved wounds under "remove casualties"

"For every model that fails its save, the unit suffers an unsaved wound. Of course this also includes wounds against no save can be attempted, such as those from weapons with very high AP."

I've just had one of those epiphany moments.

This actually completely changes my strategy for Death Company now. And equally maked Nobz more worrying.

Oh well, I'm always happy to be proved wrong. Can only help my game!

If anyone is in need of further convincing, remember Plaguebearers do not have any armour save at all, but also have FNP. If FNP was negated by not allowing a save because of AP, then the Plaguies would never get their FNP save...

Yes, you can take FnP vs Ap3. You cannot take it vs AP 2 or 1.

Cheexsta wrote:If anyone is in need of further convincing, remember Plaguebearers do not have any armour save at all, but also have FNP. If FNP was negated by not allowing a save because of AP, then the Plaguies would never get their FNP save...

alright then that solves my question thanks alot guys

Ugh not another one of these


Think of it this way, power weapons, dred weapons ap1 ap2, those never allow armor saves. ap1/ap2 Never allow armor saves because there isnt a 1+ armor save, so they both will negate a 2+ armor save, hence no FNP as per the rules.
BUT something like using an ap4 against an Ork nob w/FNP and eavy armor you STILL get the FNP save, simply because yes the ap4 negates the 4+ armor save, but it doesnt stop an ap3 or ap armor save.

Under stand?

Another example:
Plaguebearers don't have armor saves....since they never get an armor save then FNP doesn't work?

No, that's not what it means.

MEQ's will get FNP from AP3 as it doesn't ignore ALL saves (namely 2+).

This has got to be *the* most common topic in YMDC aside from "does this unit get a cover save" topics.

IMO FNP and Cover saves (get down and look...) should be stickied at the top.

willydstyle wrote:This has got to be *the* most common topic in YMDC aside from "does this unit get a cover save" topics.

IMO FNP and Cover saves (get down and look...) should be stickied at the top.

Along with Rowboat Lite not getting the bonus attack.

New to forum. Glad I saw this. No wonder plague marines are so sick, literally and figureatively.

DukeRustfield wrote:New to forum. Glad I saw this. No wonder plague marines are so sick, literally and figureatively.

Welcome to Dakka!

Yeah, it's one of those annoyingly always asked questions. If only Dakka had a good Search (which Lego IS working on!) we would see less of these methinks (and we could with a straight face put up a sticky telling people to search! )

I did try to search. The results that came up had no bearing to my question.

As an addendum, don't forget that weapons that inflict instant death negate FNP. So, in the case of Death Company or Plague Marines, Battle Cannons (S8) will negate FNP.

This is a case where something like Terminators w/ an attached Sanguinary Priest will not get FNP even though they get an armor save.

Or against Manticores marines get 3+ armor but no FNP.

Something else worth noting to avoid confusion is that Feel No Pain is not a save. The 5th edition rules specifically state that only one save may be taken against a wound, the rules for Feel No Pain call it a 'roll'.

Gwar! wrote:Yes, you can take FnP vs Ap3. You cannot take it vs AP 2 or 1.

Unless its strength is double your toughness ,for example the Battle Cannon S8 AP3 gets no FNP.

Gwar! wrote:

willydstyle wrote:This has got to be *the* most common topic in YMDC aside from "does this unit get a cover save" topics.

IMO FNP and Cover saves (get down and look...) should be stickied at the top.

Along with Rowboat Lite not getting the bonus attack.

Who is Rowboat Lite?

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

willydstyle wrote:This has got to be *the* most common topic in YMDC aside from "does this unit get a cover save" topics.

IMO FNP and Cover saves (get down and look...) should be stickied at the top.

Along with Rowboat Lite not getting the bonus attack.

Who is Rowboat Lite?

Mary Sue Calgar.

You're still wrong on that but lets not get into it again - why Rowboat?

It is a take on Roboute Guillimans name pronunciation and how Calgar is his protege I believe.

I prefer to call Calgar Papa SMurf, but Rowboat Lite does the job too .

I think this discussion has got somewhat off topic...
good off topic subject to get to though