Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Of course this would have to be a totally fluff army cause there are far better options to take using Codex SM, but IF you were doing a First Company army I'd take this:

HQ:

Chaplain
Combi-Melta
Digital Weapons
Jump Pack

140

ELITES

Sternguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
x 1 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

230

Sternguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
x 1 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

230

Sternguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
x 1 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

230

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 8

280

Vanguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 8

280

Vanguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 8

280


Sternguard squads get into cover and provide heavy fire support (missile launchers taken cause in need of anti-armour).
Razorbacks with tac squads go to cover objectives (if applicable) or tank hunting.
Vanguards (with attached Chaplain to one squad) goes rampaging through enemy lines.

I think that at this points level a good veterans lists need Pedro as mandatory, make a confrontation on what the Chaplain give you in comparison of what Pedro can make for the list. only 35 points more..

hmmm well having run a chaplain with a normal assault squad I can vouch for his Liturgies of Battle rule being AWESOME with an assault squad.

Pedro Kantor.....you get Sternguards as scoring units.

meh.

Orbital Bombardmen. hmmmmm maybe

Inspiring Presence. up to 12" units get an extra attack....
BUT......is that enough to make up for one of my assault squads not benefiting from Liturgies of Battle.

Stubborn. All units don't have to undergo leadership or morale tests.......MAYBE

I'll think about it.

But chaplain works I know.

Well, you can field Pedro AND one Chaplain if you want.
Just cut some Veteran here and there, changing from 8x sq. to 7x doesn't really transform your list but after you'll have 5 scoring units trasforming one just Fluffy list in something at least playable.

true. i'll consider it!

Just would love to see what happens when you actually use these guys in combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok.... refielded army with 2 HQs:

HQ

Pedro Kantor

175

Chaplain
Combi-Melta
Jump Pack

130

ELITES

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
Missile Launcher

205

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
Missile Launcher

205

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
Missile Launcher

205

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 7

250

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 7

250

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 7

250


VOILA

I would try and get some Melta-bombs or powerfists in their. It's not like this army is going to have trouble with Hordes, as the Vanguard can handle them. But your AT is sorely lacking at this point level. I would get Fists on as many sergeants as possible, and if you're really tight on points maybe only melta bombs on the vangaurd sergeants.

Pedro is a no brainer for this list. Your Vanguard now have 5 attacks per model on the charge.

I think you should replace the combi-plasmas with Combi-meltas. Even against 2+ armor saves Hellfires work great, and you still need the AT. Not to mention a melta shot is still AP 1.

The Missile Launcher seems sort of out of place. Perhaps you should take 3 units of 10, that way you can take combis and heavy weapons and combat squad them so that you have a mobile half and a heavy weapon half.

Consider also the PF on the Chaplain, for only 15 points is the cheaper available and, more important, is on one 4+ invulnerable save character.

Little by little your originally "only fluffy" list start to became a really nice list.

I did consider a Power Fist for Chaplain, but he already has Crozius Arcanum, and since chaplains are metal characters I don't have model for it.

OK i'm going to redo the list for a third time, see what happens....

Sternguard Sergeants don't need Power Fists. They just need their Trusty Bolter. Vanguard....I'll see about changing the squad with chaplain in it to Power Fist. oooh.....rerolled rolls to hit with Str 8 Power Fists!! mmmmmm
HQ

Pedro Kantor

175

Chaplain
Crozius Arcanum
Power Fist
Jump Pack

130

ELITES

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
x 4 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

205

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7man)
x 4 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

205

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
x 4 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

205

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback

130

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Power Fists
Jump Packs x 7

270

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
Power Fist
Jump Packs x 7

260

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 7

250

Ok nice choice on pedro

Chaplain doesn't need a power fist, if a model has two special weapnos you use one or the other. Drop the fist and put the fist on the sgt instead.

Sternguard are completely messed up. You've got 7 men so you cannot combat squad and no rhinos for transport so you're just going to stand there and fire one missile, this is a big waste of the sternguard you're paying to use their special ammo and you're not.

Take twin-linked lascannons on both razorbacks or else one will become target priority.

Vanguard aren't that good in the vanilla codex; they're over priced. I'd just take normal assault marines and say they're veterans

Would that mean they'd have 2 attacks instead of one mercer? The assault marines that is.

I kinda agree with chaplain and power fist. But then again I like the idea of a power fisted Chaplain.

Sternguard.....that was the points speaking, and the missile launcher is cause I don't have much long rang anti armour.

Razorbacks...points again. couldn't afford two T-L Lascannons.

Vanguard are annoyingly expensive for one reason only. They don't have jump packs as standard!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK Redone to boost the Sternguard levels and reduce costs:

HQ

Pedro Kantor

175

Chaplain
Crozius Arcanum
Digital Weapons
Jump Pack

125

ELITES

Sternguard Veteran Squad (10 man)
Rhino

285

Sternguard Veteran Squad (10man)
Rhino

285

Sternguard Veteran Squad (10 man)
Rhino
285

TROOPS

Scout Squad (5 man)
Sniper Rifles
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

150

Scout Squad (5 man)
Sniper Rifles
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

150

ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5 man)
Sergeant: Power Fist
Jump Packs x 5

185

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
Jump Packs x 5

175

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
Jump Packs x 5

175


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I actually don't like this list now cause it places too many points in the sternguard. Yes their bolters are nice, but the vanguard now will have to be very lucky on their charge (20 attacks on charge is ok I guess).

Because of adding the Rhinos and upping the sternguard to 10 man it's become a meh list in my eyes.

Had to change tac squads to scouts. At least they get sniper rifles.

Aye mate the assault marines get two attacks because on in the profile and then one for the ccw & pistol, so that's three on the charge

You've still got missile launchers in the sternguard. So you're hanging back and shooting and the preimum price you've paid for that special ammo is doing nothing and been wasted. Drop the missile launcher; sternguard are not heavy support. Taking the sternguard in 10 man unit is definately better, they just need transport!

The thing with vanguard is they're expensive and do not come with jump packs as standard. You've also got to deep strike them in to take advantage of that funky special rule which you're paying so many points for. But because you can fluff this up you could lose the unit. Vanguard are a lot better in a blood angels list because angels only scatter 1D6" so that means your vanguard will always be in assault range when deep striking., more or less.

Um I haven't got any ML in latest profile...


I have officially decided Vanguard and Sternguard are not worth their points.

Vanguard are only worth it if you take Relic Blades and have uber amount of points to spend.

And Sternguard are basically a longer ranged bolter squad that can die just as easily in CC as a tac squad.....

GRRRR

Uhmmm I swear there was because the sternguard were still 7 per unit unless I was looking at the wrong post? Anyway, glad you've taken them out

Excellent point on both units. Sternguard are best against anti infantry. I have found dragon rounds and krakken ronuds to be the best

Well i'd like to see how it plays. Just annoying you can't take Sternguard as Troops. then i'd have a pure sternguard vanguard army.....

If you want to really profit by the Sterngards units give them Drop pods, with the special rule you'll can land immediately 2 complete units the first turn.

They will be easily targetted as on the middle of the table but they will can strike immediately on the good targets.

Finally, even if they're still over priced this is the best way to use them.

if you want troops with 30 guns get tau.

get ur scouts out of rhinos and get ur stern in there, clearly this list is not a sit and shoot army. you need to get stern into the fight to dbltap as many people as possible. with pedro in there they are scoring units so they have more reason to be mobile, scout/snipers suck harder than hard. you don't reduce the weapons power AND the BS of the unit that uses it. give em shotties or something. if you could i'd suggest giving your scouts the fists. as of now they just seem like filler without any real benefit to the army. nothing to make the anything more than crappy scouts, if you can strap fists to them they become something that needs to be dealt with along with all your fire power. Infiltrating powerfists sounds interesting if possible.

The Sternguard are in Rhinos....... (look at latest list again!)

Giving Scouts Sniper Rifles and Razorbacks

And this list is a shoot and assault army. Sternguard and scouts soften up the enemy before the Vanguard jump in and finish off low number squads.

Well with tactical matrines it is not really a fluffy 1st company list scouts would fit better. And Pedro would be awesome in this list. How you can say making a list with 24 Sternguard and making them scoring is Meh is beyond me. As is he's got to just kill 2 Av11 atnks and 10 guys and you can't hold any objectives.

Taking Pedro would up that to 34 guys and assaulting those guys would now have 3 attacks each. The Vangaurd within 12" would get 5 attacks each on the charge, 4 as standard!

I doubt you'll ever use the orbital bombardment. Stubborn is poor on space marines. I don't really like missile launchers on the sterngaurd or the lack of transports, but if you're going down that route why not get 2 MLs? Or even 2 Lascannons which are quite cheap for Sternguard (5 Sternguard with 2 LCs is cheaper than 5 Devastators with 2 LCs, But gain the advantages of 2 attacks each, special ammo and are scoring).

Stearn guard are really interesting and with Pedro, they count as scoring units...Great considering so many missions require objective grabbing.

10 man squad in a drop pod with 4 combi meltas has worked pretty well for me (usually 1 or 2 units) - you can drop, combat squad with 2 combi-meltas in each and blast two of the opponents tanks with one unit - or drop far away and shooot with bolters and special ammo. Works even better with 2 drop pods coming down on turn one (need 3 DPs in total for this)

Just some thoughts...

Hmmmm Drop Pods are more appealing than Rhinos.

Bear in mind I don't have any rhinos or drop pods IRL.

I may cut one of the Assault Squads....

Let's see. what happens if I do this:

HQ
Pedro and Chaplain (unchanged)

300

ELITES:

Sternguard Squads (10 man) x2
x 2 Combi-Melta in each
x 2 Drop Pods

660

Troops

Tac Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ Heavy Flamer

155

Scout Squad (5 man)
Sniper Rifles x 4
Missile Launcher

85

ASSAULT:

Vanguard Squads x 3 (6 man)
Lightning Claws
Power Fist
Power Fist
Jump Packs x 6

795


Given Vanguard one more guy in each squad to make them worthwhile actually taking.

Scout squad has missile launcher to give it some more firepower.

Taking 2 combi-meltas per sternguard squad, combat-squadded, means if one squad doesn't get the tank, the other should.....

I'd take far more combis in the sternguard squads. 4 is an absolute minimum in a 10 man squad 6-7 is about right.

You need another drop pod or they won't be arriving together.

Razorback squad is niether fluffy nor particularly effective with a heavy flamer.

Scout missile launcher will miss. Camocloaks would do them far more good (maybe 2 min camocloak squads would be the best option for your troops). THen you have 2 units with 2+ cover save to objective camp and the enemy will have to assault them off to get rid of them.

5 or 6 Vanguard doesn't really make much difference you might be better off with just 2 squads of 8. Particularly if one squad is going with the Chappy you want as many bodies as possible to benefit from his litanies...

Yeah i'm thinking less vanguard is necessary......

I just hate HAVING to take 2 troop choises.

UNLESS I lower the amount of sternguard and vanguard i'm taking....

NEW LIST:

Pedro Kantor

175

Chaplain
Combi-Melta
Jump Pack

125

ELITES

Sternguard (10 man)
x 7 combi-melta
Drop Pod

320

Sternguard (10 man)
x 6 combi-melta
Drop Pod

315

TRANSPORTS

Drop Pod

35

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w T-L Lascannon

165

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

ASSAULT

Vanguard (10 man)
Sergeant: Power Fist
Lightning Claw
Jump Packs x 10

350

Vanguard (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 10

340


2000 points on the nose. Two fully tooled up sternguard. 2 powerful vanguard squads. TWO tac squads for parking on objectives with their razorbacks blasting armour.....

don't think this army would work against hoardes...

If you're worried about hordes swap some of the combi-meltas for combi-flamers (likewise if your worried about Terminators go combi-plasma). Sternguard are pretty horrific against Hordes anyway. I had 6 (including a heavy flamer) kill 15 Orks in a single shooting phase .

However your army isn't legal you have a drop pod transport that hasn't been bought for anyone. You need it to be bought for a specific unit.

Pity they never model combi-flamers.

And if i'm going against Orks i'm taking my normal army lol.

This army's for Chaos or maybe Eldar.

Combi flamers are easy. Just cut the end off and stick it on a bolter and then glue the tank on the side - job is a good un!

Yeah combi flaamers are no different to make than combi-meltas. Pretty easy just cut boland theflamer/melta end from their guns and then glue them back on so the bolter barrel is that bit higher giving room for the flamer. I don't even bother with adding the fuel tank on the side...

Ah....it goes then. boom. no drop pod.

Can sternguard combat squadded take one drop pod?

Yes because it's for the unit.

hooray! so one drop pod fits one combat squadded squad. sweet.

I think this list could work well as a rhino rush. Give the Sternys rhinos and take off the Vanguards jetpacks, give the Vannys rhinos and add some Dakka Preds with the spare points.

Then you've got four rhinos and two razorbacks with some decent fire support.