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I'm a nid player, but I heard about the that the amount of dreadnoughts that the orks could field, and I though it would be a great excuse to make a looted carnifex with my spare one, as they've been completely nerfed...

anyway, the basic list would look like this:

HQ
Big Mek with Kustom Force Field
Big Mek with Kustom Force Field

Each Big Mek allows one Deff Dread to counts as a Troops choice

Troops
Deff Dread
Deff Dread

Heavy
3 Killa Kans
3 Killa Kans
3 Killa Kans

plus anything to bulk it up if i wanted a larger list

Now a couple of questions:
A) How effective is this list?
B) What's the best, if there is, build for the Kan's/Dread's? (eg. extra dreadnought weapons, rokkit laucha's etc)
C) Do the Deff Dread's count as scoring units, as their vehicles?
D) Has anyone got some good links to scratch build Kans/Dreads?

Thanks in advance.

Nothing with an armor value counts as scoring so the best you can hope for is draws int 2/3 games (baring you tabling someone which is unlikely as this list is very slow).

Ok, cheers mate, so to make it workable I gotta add some boyz to it, which I was gona do anyway, need something to bulk it out

A: Fairly Effective. Slow but competitive

B: Rokkits on Kans. Two DCCW's on Dreads or DCCW/Skorcha

C: Not scoring units

D: No links sorry.

You definitely need three mobs of thirty shoota boyz with Nobz, PK's and bosspoles to go behind the Kans.

I like Stormboyz for fast attack in this kind of list, some people don't. Leave Zagstruk at home in this case.

It also wouldn't be bad to have 1 squadron of Kans with grotzookas. Good against hordes, blasting squads who just got their transport popped, and good in general.

Seriously, Grotzookas. Put them on all your Kans, and nothing but CCW on the Dreads.


Also, to bulk out the list. Lootas. Boyz. Deffcoptas.



Clay

Can the Kans move and shoot the Grotzooka?
I play nids and speed doesn't seem to be much of a problem, I can normally get thing into close combat by turn 3.
I'd like to create a themed list with this, something along the lines of Deathskulls or Bad Moons seem to fit it best, ideas and suggestions on this?

Of course Kans can move and shoot the Grotzooka, they're walkers
The difference between nids and Kans/Dreads is that Nids have Toughness and wounds while Kans and Dreads have AV, which would make them easier to kill.

sHOEbOX wrote:I'm a nid player, but I heard about the that the amount of dreadnoughts that the orks could field, and I though it would be a great excuse to make a looted carnifex with my spare one, as they've been completely nerfed...

anyway, the basic list would look like this:

HQ
Big Mek with Kustom Force Field
Big Mek with Kustom Force Field

Each Big Mek allows one Deff Dread to counts as a Troops choice

Troops
Deff Dread
Deff Dread

Heavy
3 Killa Kans
3 Killa Kans
3 Killa Kans

plus anything to bulk it up if i wanted a larger list

Now a couple of questions:
A) How effective is this list?
B) What's the most, if there is, build for the Kan's/Dread's? (eg. extra dreadnought weapons, rokkit laucha's etc)
C) Do the Deff Dread's count as scoring units, as their vehicles?
D) Has anyone got some good links to scratch build Kans/Dreads?

Thanks in advance.

A. Not effective because deff dreads cannot claim objectives; they're vehicles! So you've lost objective games before you start not making this list affective at all.

B. What exactly is a most build? Do you mean must build? If so rokkits on kanz are good for anti tank, kustom mega blaster is ok too because vehicles do not have gets hot! Deff dreads are better with a full house of c.c weapons or skorchas. For some reason I fancy two big shoots but this isn't affective, just looks cool!

C. No, as mentioned. Vehicles nor swarms can claim objectives if they're a troop choice.

D. Yes, here:

mercer wrote:What exactly is a most build? Do you mean must build?

I mean best build, my bad, and cheers for the picture, looks shweeeet!

I found the perfect body for some kustom made dreads and kans...
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/10/20/1256034455391/New-smaller-Coca-Cola-can-001.jpg

They sell the tiny kids sized cans in my local supermarket for 40p each, and i can proxy them as Kans until i finish the conversion (well, they are technically kans...)

AH right, cool, I thought so. Answered that for you btw

I wouldn't use coke cans because they can dent easily and the paint make flake off. For killa kanz get some plastic piping, same for deff dreads. Also keep a eye on e-bay for the real mccoy

mercer wrote:I wouldn't use coke cans because they can dent easily and the paint make flake off

Gona spray expanding foam in them to stop that happening. I'm gona cover most of the cans with typical orky what nots, using plasti-card and greenstuff, and finish the model with purity seal spray, so paint flaking off shouldn't be an issue, besides, I think I'm gona leave the coke cola logo visible on the dread, just for the lols...

I play Kan Wall/Dreadbash and won my last tourney (2K points) with it. Basic set up (though this is not the set-up I won the tourney with):

HQ:
Meks w/ KFF x 2

Elites:
As many lootas as I can afford, usually MSU style with 6 men

Troops:
Dreads x 2 (Skorcha, 3x DCCW, Riggers, Armor Plates)
As many shoota boyz as I can fit, with nob w/ PK, BP; big shootas if you have plenty of lootas/rokkits, rokkits if you don't
Occasionally a grot mob for reserves scoring or bubblewrapping lootas

Heavy:
9 x Kans, all with rokkits (I have grotzookas as well, just have ZERO luck with them and prefer to have my BS3 tossing rokkits around; YMMV)

Fast Attack:
Deffkoptas w/ TL RL and Buzzsaws, 1-3 units of 1

***

Basically, this is a walking gunline. Rokkits, lootas popping MCs, transports, etc.; shootas gunning down everything else. Usually a decisive charge somewhere around turn 3 or 4.

Deffkoptas (or cheap warbuggy rokkit units, your call) roam free style to kill entrenched units, either on the turn 1 scout move or outflanking.

Overall, the kan lists work pretty well; it's hard to deal with that many dreads with 4+ cover saves, and the shoota boyz can lay down withering fire (I often have 80-90 of them, that's a lot of S4 shots). Not the most imaginative list, but effective.

My tourney-winning list had some nob units with battlewagons instead of the lootas, but it was overkill and sort of stepped on its own feet. Walking horde is the way to go.

cheers skarboy, great help, I'm probably going to have mega armour nobs in a truck as well as looters to stick with the Bad Moons theme, with some bikes and want not to escort them up the battle field.

I think bikes is probably a mistake in this sort of army. Even the Meganobz in a trukk is questionable. The reason being, they end up away from the Kans. The point of this type of army is to keep almost everything together to benefit from the KFF and to have the Kans block LOS. So, if you start having trukks and bikes running off, you've sort of defeated the purpose. The Kans and shoota boys won't be quick enough to move up the field to back them up, so whatever gets too far away from the KFF and Kans will probably get blown up. It seems to me, the most successful Kan wall armies are purely footslogging shoota boys behind a lot of kans and Dreads, with some Lootas in the back shooting at targets of opportunity. Also having rokkit buggies or deffkoptas running around harrassing enemy vehicles is useful too. But, keep in mind, they'll probably be dead by turn 2 or 3 at the latest.

Part of what makes kans effective is the mobile 4+ cover save provided by the KFF save - if you don't give a Big Mek a unit to attach to, then he's going to get insta-gibbed first thing to take away your cover saves for your walkers. AV11 killa-kans aren't exactly threatening when they're having to march across the field 6" at a time with no cover saves.

Yer, I was thinking that about the Mek's being venerable, I thought of taking a couple of Nobz with a painboy and place the Mek's with them, though that limits my elite choices. Would it be better to place him in a descent size mob of orks, which guarantees them all a +5 CS. Does the Kustom force field give you a bonus on your cover save, eg. if you had a grot screen that would give your boys a +4 CS, and if they were also in range of a KFF would that improve the save? (just a thought when I checked the rules...)

The mega nobz in the truck, bikes plus other such fast moving krumping stuff would serve as a bit of distraction. The 11 and 12 AV of the kans and dreads ain't great at taking the ridiculous amount of S10 weapons out there now, and I thought that by having 6 power klaw equipped, twin linked shooting monstrosity's with a +2 save hurling towards the front line, backed up with bikes and god knows what else would serve as a very good distraction. Come to think of it, if I placed that on the wing, with the bikes closest to the board edge so that the truck blocks line of sight, and then deff copters or war buggies on the other side of the truck to obscure it or just a plain old empty truck to completely block the line of sight on the nobz truck it then could put up with a fair amount of fire power. However, I can see that it could isolate itself and become surrounded, though outflanking deff copters could help somewhat with that (66% of the time they'll come in on the board edge you want, and that's good odds for Orks!). What do you guys think?

Tbh, I'm not that interested in playing really competitively, and I quite like the idea of an element of the army being fast moving, as it would make games more fun whizzing around krumping stuff, or it'll be quite funny if it fails...

PS. Won my first 5th edition game today, (only played 3-5 games so far...) with the help of 30 outflanking hormagaunts...

sHOEbOX wrote:cheers skarboy, great help, I'm probably going to have mega armour nobs in a truck as well as looters to stick with the Bad Moons theme, with some bikes and want not to escort them up the battle field.

Well, that could be what's considered "Deffwing," the orky version of Dark Angels Deathwing. I'm not going to discourage you from playing as you like, but a couple isolated fast units in an otherwise footslogging army are asking for trouble. I'd advise you to keep the meganobz and bikes in a speed freek army and stick to infantry here. If you want some pest units, use cheaper suicide units, such as deffkoptas.

But that's just me. The point is to have fun, so do what you like. Orks are built for fun.

I'd stick a big unit of boys around him. 25 including a Nob with PK.


Clay

Primarch wrote:I'd stick a big unit of boys around him. 25 including a Nob with PK.


Clay

And another 50-60 shoota boyz to go with them in case they get lonely...

For the entire list, certainly. I was mainly talking about a unit just for the Big Mek to hide in.



Clay

ok, thanks for the advice, now that its half term here in England I've got a lot more time on my hands (not much to do in my town...) so I'm gona write up a list. It gona be themed, and cost is a big deal, as I also want my Tyranid swarm to grow ever larger (its a little over a 1000pts so far, with some more warriors, genestealers and anything I've forgotten about. This means that having a load of troops is really not good for me, but I'm gona look at the codex to find and use as many force multipliers as possible, at the same time sticking to the theme and the measly budget. I'll post the list and the fluff when it's done on the forum, and post a link on here so that it can easily be found.