Hull-Mounted Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters???

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**MekanobSamael**

Ok, I just got into a long argument with someone about this, so I'm going to try to tackle the issue in a rational manner. In Codex: Space Marines, the weapon listed on the Razorback Entry is "Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter." It does not specif what type of mounting it has. My opponent argued that since it was not listed, it had to be hull-mounted, whereas I argued that it was clearly designed to rotate in any direction, similarly to the machine gun/grenade launcher mounted on top of the Striker IFV. I only finally managed to convince him by citing the fact that razorback turrets rotate in any direction in Dawn of War II, but is there a better reason why this is true? It certainly looks pintle-mounted to me. Or am I just wrong?

**VikingScott**

If it is not listed it goes by what is on the model.

**nosferatu1001**

The rulebook / FAQ state that the type of mounting it is on determines the fire arc. There is no "has to be hull mounted", you use the model.

The HB / etc on a razor back are turret mounted, so 360 degree arc.

**Alpharius**

Hard to see how someone could argue otherwise...

**Gwar!**

Your friend is talking nonsense. There is nothing about "default" mountings at all.

**Augustus**

Indeed, 360.

**Dashofpepper**

Gwar! wrote:Your friend is talking nonsense. There is nothing about "default" mountings at all.

I thought the "default" was pintle mounted unless otherwise specified?

**Scott-S6**

There's no default dash.

brb_faq wrote:Remember that the rule is: if it looks like you
can point the gun at it, then you can, even if it’s
glued in place’. The rest is just a set of guidelines
about the arcs of fire of weapons glued in place,
and does not cover all possible weapons
mounting and vehicles. If the structure the gun is
pintle-mounted on is obviously capable of
rotating 360º, like in the case of a Rhino’s cupola,
then it should be treated as having a 360º arc of
fire. However, if you mount the same storm
bolter on a Razorback, even though it still can
rotate 360º, it won’t obviously be able to fire
through the Razorback’s main turret, and so it
will have a ‘blind spot’. In the same way, the
shuriken catapult mounted under the hull of a
Wave Serpent, Falcon, etc. looks like it can rotate
360º, but it does not look like it can be fired
through the main hull right behind it, so we
normally play that it can be fired roughly in the
180º to the vehicle’s

Also, note that to be pintle mounted (as opposed to just being mounted on a small 360degree mounting) it must be explicitly stated - being pintle mounted confers the AA special rule which is very important against flyers.

**Fiend**

Seems rather irrational that someone would argue that the model GW made was incorrect and that'd you'd have to hull mount it. Since there is no default mounting rule just go with the model.

**MekanobSamael**

Alright everybody, thanks so much!

**Homer S**

Hmmm, so I shouldn't put a helmetless Space Marine in the back door of the Rhino firing the TL Heavy Bolter Rambo-style?

Homer

**Baxx**

A space marine firing a twin-linked heavy weapon is still unheard of. Would that look awesome?

I would like to add a couple of related questions. What would you say about the Land Raider Terminus Ultra? The Las Cannons are not well made for the Land Raider's side doors, the rear twin-las cannons can't aim forwards. In apocalypse games, we pay no respect to this, as it would be very foolish otherwise. What do you think?

**nosferatu1001**

They have exactly the arc of fire the model allows them to have - the rear lascannons arent meant to fire directly forwards, as they would shoot the weapon sponsons in front....however if you fire up at, say, a titan (wha tthe terminus is "designed" to kill) then you have mor tan enough angle to shoot everything.

**Baxx**

No, the Land Raider isn't designed to have so long cannons on each side sponsons. It can't fire all weapons, or would need Machine spirit to target something different. However, a cumbersome conversion could make the side sponsons fire parallel. 5 Las Cannons is designed to take whatever 5 las cannons can take. A titan is a rare sight at most apocalypse games.

**zeshin**

Baxx wrote:No, the Land Raider isn't designed to have so long cannons on each side sponsons. It can't fire all weapons, or would need Machine spirit to target something different. However, a cumbersome conversion could make the side sponsons fire parallel. 5 Las Cannons is designed to take whatever 5 las cannons can take. A titan is a rare sight at most apocalypse games.

Personally I've never seen an apocolypse game w/o titans. But I have seen (on Dakka I believe) the terminus conversion where the single Las Cannon is mounted on the same sponson as the TL just under the two Las Cannons. Looks nice.

**nosferatu1001**

Titans are rare in apocalypse games? Really?

We normally have 5 or 6 and a fair few big tanks...

**UltraPrime**

Nice to have a bottomless supply of cash!

**Baxx**

There is only 1 in my city who has a Warhound. Except that, there is nothing except a bunch of baneblade variants, stompas, and other cheaper super-heavies.

**Scott-S6**

Baxx wrote:A space marine firing a twin-linked heavy weapon is still unheard of. Would that look awesome?

I would like to add a couple of related questions. What would you say about the Land Raider Terminus Ultra? The Las Cannons are not well made for the Land Raider's side doors, the rear twin-las cannons can't aim forwards. In apocalypse games, we pay no respect to this, as it would be very foolish otherwise. What do you think?

You have the arcs that the model has.

Whilst it's a fine line away from modelling for advantage I, for one, would not object to someone assembling a terminus ultra in a way that was less... completely stupid!

**nosferatu1001**

UltraPrime wrote:Nice to have a bottomless supply of cash!

Nope, just where we live there are a LOT of gamers....our local GW sold twice the number of Space Hulks than Warhammer world,...