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Hey Guys,

I'm a fan of the Dark Angels' darker (pun intended) side... I like the idea of Dark Angels suddenly up and leaving a combat operation when they are needed the most, I like the idea of them seizing nosey inquisitors and leaving them to roam the passages of The Rock forever, I like the inner-circle and the lobotomising of those that discover it.

So, if GW ever decides to actually embrace plot progression, I think the Dark Angels should slip up, go a step too far: Leave a crucial battle and arouse more than suspicion from the Inquisition, their dishonour should be uncovered and the Angels forced to accelerate their plans... In short, they should be the first Renegade Chapter codex. Imagine the Angels frantically scrambling to finish their chapter's work before the Imperium crushes them, blasting through former-friends and age-old foe, all pre-tenses of subtlety dropped as they bombard whole worlds...

Wouldn't it be nice to have another non-Imperial faction?

How models and rules would translate I dunno, I guess a Renegade Chapter would for the most part lose access to a lot of the SM's shinier vehicles and rules would be adjusted to demonstrate that. They'd also not be able to call upon any Daemons or Chaos stuff because Renegade doesn't necessarily mean corrupted.

Or am I butchering a beloved Chapter? Is their secrecy what makes them popular? For Renegades should we instead see a Codex: Soul Drinkers?

What are you talking about Henners? There is no Inner circle, no mission except fighting for the Emperor, no dishonour. We have always been loyal servants of Him on earth. Just step over here for a moment please ...
In all seriousness, it's an interesting slant but as a DA player I don't like it. The Dark Angels should always be loyal, even if loyal to who is questionable. The first legion being renegade seems...wrong to me.

Henners91 wrote:
So, if GW ever decides to actually embrace plot progression, I think the Dark Angels should slip up, go a step too far: Leave a crucial battle and arouse more than suspicion from the Inquisition, their dishonour should be uncovered and the Angels forced to accelerate their plans... In short, they should be the first Renegade Chapter codex. Imagine the Angels frantically scrambling to finish their chapter's work before the Imperium crushes them, blasting through former-friends and age-old foe, all pre-tenses of subtlety dropped as they bombard whole worlds...

Wouldn't it be nice to have another non-Imperial faction?

How models and rules would translate I dunno, I guess a Renegade Chapter would for the most part lose access to a lot of the SM's shinier vehicles and rules would be adjusted to demonstrate that. They'd also not be able to call upon any Daemons or Chaos stuff because Renegade doesn't necessarily mean corrupted.

Or am I butchering a beloved Chapter? Is their secrecy what makes them popular? For Renegades should we instead see a Codex: Soul Drinkers?

1) renegades are part of codex choas space marines, you could built anyzthing without shiny toys from there.
2) the loyal first legion of the emperors finest would never turn.
3) can you imagine the threads about MORE space marines? 3 factions of space marines? Imagine the OMG......
4) DA fluff and your idea aren't compatible.

I didn't say they turned, many Renegade Chapters still consider themselves loyal to the Emperor (Badab War, Soul Drinkers, etc.), it's simply that they peeve off the Inquisition and to be honest, the Dark Angels have caused the Imperium to lose battles and have murdered Inquisitors simply to achieve their mission and keep it a secret respectively, I am simply saying that the Inquisition may someday find their behaviour unacceptable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The DA are so obsessed with protecting their honour that they'd probably do anything to stop knowledge of the Fallen from spreading, I can see themselves launching an exterminatus to do that.

I'm a DA fan, but I'll catch some flak for this...

I'd rather see them drop the DA codex altogether and add Belial and Sam, with their FOC changes, as special characters to the Vanilla codex.

Win/ Win IMHO.
GW- 1 less codex to update frees up resources for other armies.
DA players won't get screwed with a sub par codex every edition.

Henners91 wrote:I didn't say they turned, many Renegade Chapters still consider themselves loyal to the Emperor (Badab War, Soul Drinkers, etc.), it's simply that they peeve off the Inquisition and to be honest, the Dark Angels have caused the Imperium to lose battles and have murdered Inquisitors simply to achieve their mission and keep it a secret respectively, I am simply saying that the Inquisition may someday find their behaviour unacceptable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The DA are so obsessed with protecting their honour that they'd probably do anything to stop knowledge of the Fallen from spreading, I can see themselves launching an exterminatus to do that.

The Soul Drinkers and astral claws DID turn from our holy god emperors light.
A crappy name like "soul drinker" may hint on it from start.

The space wolves may have caused some MIA inquisitors too.
Almost every space marine is foremost loyal to the emperor and inquisitors sometimes are found wanting and thusly dutyfully taken out of service by astartes. Could you guarantee the loyality of the "lost" inquisitors?

Consider this:
the Dark Angels split up their legion but kept close ties. It would either be a interchapter war ( DA vs DA ) or the whole bunch
of "unforgiven" ( 6 chapters + X ) may start a fight.
=I= cannot afford the loss of 6-10.000 space marines. ( plus xthousand other forces to confront said 10k SM ).

Actually the =I= is watching SW and BA too.

The DA are very loyal to the Emporer and their primarch (though I too enjoy the dark side of the lion and friends) and that is really the reason they want to deal with the fallen, they want to do it as a kind of apologetic move to the Emporer for having the split. And a lot of chapters who are not OMGULTERMUHREENS are being watched by the =I=

double post. sorry.

New Codex Fluff Requirement: Some special character has to murder an Eldar Avatar of War with his bare hands. The mighty Avatar’s molten form must plod menacingly forth upon the field of battle and ONLY this special character has the courage/skill/ferocity to defeat it… which he will after his retinue/army/closest friend lay dead at the hands of said Avatar.

This is the final exam for a Bachelors Degree in Cool Hero Studies. If your Dark Angels special characters wish to pursue a Masters Degree he may have to single-handedly destroy a Blackstone Fortress or make an army of Bloodthirsters cry like little girls… all WHILE simultaneously killing an Eldar Avatar of war.

Nothing out of the realm of possibility – just another year of classes and a graduate paper entitled “Tactical Genius: The story of how I saved the imperium from the threat of chaos/tyranids/orks during an afternoon nap”

Don't know why people keep going on about that. A Chapter Master can kill an Avatar even in the fething game.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Don't know why people keep going on about that. A Chapter Master can kill an Avatar even in the fething game.

People keep going on about that because the idea of the Avatar being an incarnation of the Eldar God of War while simultaneously the default special character curb-stompee in every codex is just silly. The fact that a Space Marine chapter master can kill an Avatar in the game says more about the game’s lack of a realistic depiction of the Avatar than it does about the fluff’s reflection within the game.

I was just joking anyway. I know your codex got shafted in its last edition but I’m sure you’ll have a special character or two in your next codex somewhere who’s bagged himself an Avatar… things grow on trees you know.

Gamble wrote:I'm a DA fan, but I'll catch some flak for this...

I'd rather see them drop the DA codex altogether and add Belial and Sam, with their FOC changes, as special characters to the Vanilla codex.

Win/ Win IMHO.
GW- 1 less codex to update frees up resources for other armies.
DA players won't get screwed with a sub par codex every edition.

I'm new to the DAs, I am painting my army atm (just finished my first Rhino, took 7 hours...) which used to be Blood Ravens.

I've never played a game with the DA Codex but I intend to use it only for a DW/RW army, I'll use Codex: Ultramarines for my non-specialist battles, and looking at the DA Codex it seems the only real unique stuff they got were DW/RW and special characters anyway? I agree with you, they should just be incorporated into the next SM Codex... I mean, the DA are only special as a chapter because two of their companies disregard the Codex Astartes, the rest are organised along Codex lines and thus they are hardly as unique as the SW or BTs to warrant their own codex.

Other than our hunt for the fallen which often leads us to butt heads with other Imperial agents/forces but hey, what chapter hasn't? Also: no sternguard/vanguard (due to all terminator 1st company).

We do get Company Veterans though... which might as well be the same thing? I'm having a hard time repainting my BR Sternguard, they have Crux Terminatuses ¬_¬

But sternguard/vanguard are only 1st company. Yes we have terminator vets and standard vets but they are not the same. Not even close really...

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sternguard_Veteran

CrazyThang wrote:Other than our hunt for the fallen which often leads us to butt heads with other Imperial agents/forces but hey, what chapter hasn't? Also: no sternguard/vanguard (due to all terminator 1st company).

All veterans != First Company. This is especially true with the Dark Angels, who like it's mentioned, maintain cadres of "veteran" Battle-Brothers within each Company. It's worth noting that elevation to the Deathwing is kind of a two-fold thing. You have to be considered trustworthy enough to be taken into the Inner Circle of the Unforgiven, along with being a proven Battle-Brother.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some form of Sternguard/Vanguard veterans in the new Codex, but with the notation that they're considered a bit untrusted by the Deathwing.

Ah but S.guard/V.guard ARE only first company. I'm not saying anything about veterans as a whole and I'm not saying we may not get some terminator equivilant, I'm pointing out that we don't have standard S.Guard/V.Guard.
And if you noticed I did mention that we have our terminator veterans along with standard veterans though I suppose I did not explain what I meant adequatley there. Which is to say basically what you did, that not all veterans are first company which brings us back to my original point, S. and V. guard are only first company.

Sternguard and Vanguard are only first company in Codex Chapters, wherein they group all of their Veterans into a single Company, with the remainder spread across the Companies as Sergeants and Command Squads.

well i painted my SG AND VG bone, i always assumed they were 1st coy colours

@Kan:
Yes. I agree.

But since our codex does not as of now present them as an option and they are never mentioned I must assume that we do not have any.

What I could see is Special Issue Ammunition being applicable to Deathwing Terminators with Storm Bolters.

That would be neat.

thats a fair assumption till the new dex comes out

Or they'd retcon the fluff, again, re-introducing power armor to the DA Vets. Afterall, DA's 1st Company wore power armor until the 3rd edition codex.

Here's what I see:
Stern/Van Vets
TFC and LRR
Rhino and Razorback points' updated as well as RB weapon options
Kick Ass special character who wears extra long dark robes and snuffs Avatars with the power of the dark robidey dark robes.

But then I would be sad :( they don't want to make me sad... they wont like me when I'm sad...

Gamble wrote:Or they'd retcon the fluff, again, re-introducing power armor to the DA Vets. Afterall, DA's 1st Company wore power armor until the 3rd edition codex.

Once again:
Not all Veterans are First Company.

There are Power Armored veterans. They seemingly keep the ones who demonstrate aptitude in the First Company following their initiation into the Deathwing and Inner Circle.

Azrael's the Chapter-Master, served with distinction in the First Company, etc. But he wears Artificer Power Armour.
It's not unreasonable to assume the 3rd-9th Companies could muster up Veterans that are on par with the Sternguard/Vanguard.

I wasn't clear with my post.

By retcon the fluff, I mean allow power armor to be worn by the 1st company again. Currently all Deathwing wear TDA. That wasn't alwasy the case. That's where I'm going with my comment.

And again, you don't need veterans to exclusively be First Company.

It's entirely plausible for us to have Sternguard/Vanguard units available as Elites--or just the options available to the Company Veterans in Power Armour.

well i think its a peronal choice tbh
i have 1st coy predators painted in bone
and DA green land raiders
i also have 2nd coy scouts in black armour

i personally beleive that the entire chapter would have sternguard vets at there disposal and that the would serve under different companies

i agree that its plausabile to have sternguard with DA they fit in well with th style of the army

Actually, they'll be available as Elites and Fast Attack like the last 2 sm 'dexes (SM/BA) and they'll fit in with the current fluff of being 1st company veterans. That is, if they get the SG/VG equivalent, which I believe they will.

The only way to implement your suggestion would be special issue ammo to SGT's and I don't see that happening no matter how many times you reiterate your point.