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I just got some of these so I could put them together and paint them. However I never used them in a game yet and not sure if they are any good or how to use them properly!
So are they good? What are some good tactics for using these in a game and what types of lists would they go best in? Mecha, Foot slogging, green tide lists?

Snikrot and kommandos (with two burnas) are moderately valuable in any Ork list. Snikrot is STR6 on the charge and has a chance to hurt AV10 rear armor. 2+ to wound your average model with rerolls to hit, accompanied by a couple of power weapons (the burnas) gives you quite a platform to strike fear into the heart of any opponent across the table from you. However, he's not an all powerful unit, and there are some things to consider.

1. Snikrot himself costs 85 points. Before any squad members, that's 5 points different than a battlewagon. That's 10 points more than a 5 man Loota squad.

2. Kommandos are twice as expensive as a regular ork, and still only I3 on the charge....IF they aren't charging through cover. You can expect them to strike last, and if you're assaulting into Long Fangs, or devestators, or objective holding MEQs, you can expect to lose a bunch of kommandos....who's only purpose is to serve as ablative wounds to keep Snikrot and the two burnas alive.

3. On the flip side, while always expecting Snikrot to get his points back might be a bit over-ambitious, he's an army enhancer. With his ability to come on where he likes (including the back of the board) enemies might deploy further towards your main army than they otherwise would have; they'll sacrifice squads to line table edges to try denying Snikrot access to valuable units. The psychological impact he can make in a game is very effective.

On that note, if you're going to use him, I would take Snikrot, two burnas, and 3-5 kommandos; a small force with the ability to survive the loss of a few models while still delivering attacks from Snikrot and the burnas.

Would you recommend ever attaching a warboss on a bike to snikrot's group?

Seen it done a few times, when the opponent isn't expecting it can throw a wrench in someones plans. And there is usually something valuable for the boss to wreck (leman russ squadron? :p).

Completely depends on you.

While technically legal, it won't make you friends.

I'll agree to that, I don't play orks, my brother does. Losing a land raider to a warboss on a bike out of nowhere hurts, happened first game he attached the boss to snikrot. Now I get to be paranoid and keep moving my land raider 12" whenever I'm within 18" of a table edge until snikrot comes in.

Viper217 wrote:I'll agree to that, I don't play orks, my brother does. Losing a land raider to a warboss on a bike out of nowhere hurts, happened first game he attached the boss to snikrot. Now I get to be paranoid and keep moving my land raider 12" whenever I'm within 18" of a table edge until snikrot comes in.

Well, there are some folks out there who are unfortunately listened to by their own communities that feel that Orks are the weakest codex, which seems justification to use the rules as you see fit. *shrugs*

Half of people will tell you that you should use the rules to your full advantage. Diversified Nobs with cybork bodies and a painboy for a 5++/4+ FNP with wound allocation so that you have to lose 10 wounds before losing a model are A.OK, and if you want to put Ghazghkull Thraka or a Warboss on a bike with a powerklaw in with Snikrot...have at em.

Half of people will tell you that these actions are unsportsmanlike, and duels are supposed to be fought with pistols at dawn after 10 steps and pivoting, and that those actions are like only taking 5 steps.

What does a warboss on a warbike have to do with anything? I get the warboss part but I thought only one independent character could be used per squad....so why a warbike?

Vasarto wrote:... I thought only one independent character could be used per squad....

huh?

The real advantage of Snikrot is the psychological game it helps you play. When Snikrot and krew come from reserves, you can expect them to do good damage to a unit or two. Ive managed to tie up/kill oblits, crack russ tanks, and generally cause havoc on the back lines of your enemy.

After they do their one trick, you can expect your opponent to divert his entire army into shooting Snikrot and krew into small quivering green chunks. This is fine, as they will draw so much fire, that will help the rest of your army get into assault. In a game that lasts 5-7 turns, having one unit draw fire for an entire turn is a nice advantage.

Don't ever expect Snikrot to 'get his points back'. He rarely does. What he does complete, however is to keep your opponent off balance.

Vasarto wrote:I just got some of these so I could put them together and paint them. However I never used them in a game yet and not sure if they are any good or how to use them properly!
So are they good? What are some good tactics for using these in a game and what types of lists would they go best in? Mecha, Foot slogging, green tide lists?

I've used Snikrot and the full squad with 2 burnas for a while now. The extra consideration he causes opponents for their deployment and movement is certainly an asset, but the unit itself is not an extremely hard hitting unit. Some of that is just my luck, my burnas almost always whiff. It is a capable and good for taking out certain things (Long Fangs, Devestators) and for hitting IG artillerly batteries, and for clearing out those cheap weak troop choices people tend to take to hold their backfield objective.

And Kommandos come with stikkbombs, so their initiative isn't affected by cover, but at I 2/3, you're still going last in most cases.

I face almost entirely MEQ armies these days, usually either with countercharge or all assault troops, so I'm looking at places to spend those points other than the Kommandos, because I just tend to hit those squads and evaporate.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Viper217 wrote:I'll agree to that, I don't play orks, my brother does. Losing a land raider to a warboss on a bike out of nowhere hurts, happened first game he attached the boss to snikrot. Now I get to be paranoid and keep moving my land raider 12" whenever I'm within 18" of a table edge until snikrot comes in.

Well, there are some folks out there who are unfortunately listened to by their own communities that feel that Orks are the weakest codex, which seems justification to use the rules as you see fit. *shrugs*

Half of people will tell you that you should use the rules to your full advantage. Diversified Nobs with cybork bodies and a painboy for a 5++/4+ FNP with wound allocation so that you have to lose 10 wounds before losing a model are A.OK, and if you want to put Ghazghkull Thraka or a Warboss on a bike with a powerklaw in with Snikrot...have at em.

Half of people will tell you that these actions are unsportsmanlike, and duels are supposed to be fought with pistols at dawn after 10 steps and pivoting, and that those actions are like only taking 5 steps.

Diversified Nob squads with cybork and painboyz have nothing shady or unfair about them. What's next, complain about burnas in an open topped vehicle? I can't stand Storm Shields for many reasons, but I'm not going to whine about it.

Attaching independent characters to the Kommandos is something I won't do. To my mind the Ambush rule is supposed to be an upgrade to outflank, and so if the IC can't normally outflank I don't think they should come in with Snikrot.

Vasarto wrote:What does a warboss on a warbike have to do with anything? I get the warboss part but I thought only one independent character could be used per squad....so why a warbike?

I don't believe there is any limitation on the number of Independant Characters that can join a squad, but anyway, Snikrot isn't an IC, he's a replacment for the Kommandos Nob. and if you attach a Warboss on a bike while he's in reserve it will allow you to run him from any board edge, move him out of the Kommandos unit then jab his Power Klaw into something important, with a movement range of 18 inches on the charge he can hit basically anything on the entire table, and armies always hide something in the back

This thread is all kinds of weird. We're wandering into YMDC territory here, but I thought the general consensus was that an IC does not join the unit until deployment (in other words, he joins because he is already deployed within 2" of the mob), at which point it is too late to take advantage of the Snikrot/Kommando special deployment rules.

D'Ork - this is entirely incorrect. Snikrot+kommandos will be in reserve and ICs can join units in reserve. This is stated explicitly. (BRB p94 5th paragraph)

What is debatable is whether joining an IC to the squad causes them to loose their special rule. Infiltrate and Scouts are both lost when an IC without the rule joins the squad. (BRB P75-76)

Ambush does not specify that it is lost and GW have not seen fit to FAQ this point. However, many players feel that the rule should follow the same pattern as scouts and infiltrate and be lost when an IC joins.


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Vasarto wrote:but I thought only one independent character could be used per squad

Firstly, any number of ICs may join a squad. (BRB P48, not stated explicitly but IC+unit = single unit. IC's can join units so another could join)
Second, Snikrot is not an IC. (codex orks P62)

The ambush thing all comes down to wording. Ambush says, "Snikrot and his unit may...."

You can see this poll that Yakface made about that, and opinions are widely split. Good information nonetheless: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225132.page#486075

1. An IC does not benefit from special rules conferred by a unit unless otherwise specified.

2. Ambush is not being conferred by a unit to the IC; the previous rule is irrelevant. Instead, it is being conferred to the unit by a special character.

3. When the IC joins the unit he becomes part of the unit. He doesn't gain the unit's ability to infiltrate, but Snikrot does confer to him the special rule "Ambush" because he's part of the unit.


If a warboss joins a unit of 'Ard Boyz, he doesn't get 'Eavy Armor. If he joins a unit with cybork bodies, he doesn't get cybork body. If he joins a unit with a painboy, he does get Feel No Pain because its not a unit special rule; its a character provided rule given to the attached unit, of which the warboss is now a part.

gotcha, thanks.

Dashofpepper says it best. It sounds cheap but the ability is being conferred by a special character and not the unit. FNP is a great example. I haven't tried this tactic yet. I will have to try it the next time I play my roommate and see how cheap he thinks it is. Helloooo Dreadnaught.

I run snikrot, 2 burnas and 4 reg kommandos. They have almost always paid great dividends for me. Don't underestimate the power of 2 flamer templates running loose in a backfield. And if it's meqs your going up against you may kill 1 or 2 with them in power weapon mode.

GG

If only ambush had been written "when outflanking snikrot and his unit may come any from any board edge". Then there would be no ambiguity (because attaching a warboss would make them lose infiltrate and they would not be eligible to outflank)

Snikrot & Co should be built as an expendable unit and thus kept cheap: Snikrot, Burnas, a couple of bodies for extra S4 attacks. In the end, the basic Kommando is just an overpriced slugga boy, and they don't really have any special tricks (aside from Snikrot) to utilize their outflank/infiltrate abilities. If they had tankbusta bombz, they would have a role, but they do not. The reason they should be kept cheap is that they will not survive past their first round, in all likelihood. They appear, they ambush, they get gunned down/counter charged. Why waste more than the minimum points to get the ambush job done?

As far as the IC joining Snikrot debate, it's something that has not been official FAQ'd. The INAT FAQ ruled against it and, unfortunately, that's what my local game store and tourney location uses as default. Snikrot + Ghazghkull would be a nasty combo, but you'll have to check with any tournament director beforehand, and probably not the friendliest thing to throw out in a non-competitive game. I personally think it should be allowed, but honestly don't care. It's just a tool in the toolbox. If you get it, fine; if not, orks have others that will do just as well.

Snikrot and Co scare the sh*t out of my SM and IG artillary hanging out in the back field. It will force back field shooty armies to leave things back to protect the large pieces.

Oh, I missed this:

Vasarto wrote:I just got some of these so I could put them together and paint them.

Buying the metal Kommando models is a really expensive way to go - I recommend using plastic Boyz, painting them in camo, and using all the extra bitz from the box (and whatever other Orky bitz are around) to make it look like they're carrying survival gear and stikkbombz. I took the extra step of adding moss to some of mine. They're indistinguishable from the official Kommandoes.

OK, so If I lets say on turn 2. Bring out Snikrot and I have Ghazghkull Thraka with him. I can Still Ambush because its a "his Unit may" ability but I cannot infiltrate with them.

So lets say that I Ambush from comming out of reserve on turn 2. I can split the two apart "Before" putting them on the board. Lets say they both Ambush from two different area's? cuz he is a part of the unit in reserve so he gets Ambush because he is a part of Snikrots "Unit" and everyone in his unit gets the Ambush Ability. Then I call a Waaagh!

Is that OK?

Sounds very dubious to me. If they're joining before deployment, then they can't also split before deployment and still get the benefits of being joined.

Vasarto wrote:OK, so If I lets say on turn 2. Bring out Snikrot and I have Ghazghkull Thraka with him. I can Still Ambush because its a "his Unit may" ability but I cannot infiltrate with them.

So lets say that I Ambush from comming out of reserve on turn 2. I can split the two apart "Before" putting them on the board. Lets say they both Ambush from two different area's? cuz he is a part of the unit in reserve so he gets Ambush because he is a part of Snikrots "Unit" and everyone in his unit gets the Ambush Ability. Then I call a Waaagh!

Is that OK?

No as he isn't with the unit when it arrives, you could however have him move away from the unit as they deploy and go their separate ways at that point for much the same effect.

Vasarto wrote:So lets say that I Ambush from comming out of reserve on turn 2. I can split the two apart "Before" putting them on the board. Lets say they both Ambush from two different area's? cuz he is a part of the unit in reserve so he gets Ambush because he is a part of Snikrots "Unit" and everyone in his unit gets the Ambush Ability.

Just considering the turn mechanics, and the fact that there is no 'split your ICs from an infiltrating squad' turn, that is clearly not true. There would have to be a specific rule for that to be possible, I can't think of anything that fits that role.

Eldar psyker powers (not a real turn) > movement > shooting > assault.

Snikrot is gnarly enough as it is, but it is pretty interesting that you can stick an IC in the squad to benefit from his ridiculous outflank.

Wrexasaur wrote:

Vasarto wrote:So lets say that I Ambush from comming out of reserve on turn 2. I can split the two apart "Before" putting them on the board. Lets say they both Ambush from two different area's? cuz he is a part of the unit in reserve so he gets Ambush because he is a part of Snikrots "Unit" and everyone in his unit gets the Ambush Ability.

Just considering the turn mechanics, and the fact that there is no 'split your ICs from an infiltrating squad' turn, that is clearly not true. There would have to be a specific rule for that to be possible, I can't think of anything that fits that role.

Eldar psyker powers (not a real turn) > movement > shooting > assault.

Snikrot is gnarly enough as it is, but it is pretty interesting that you can stick an IC in the squad to benefit from his ridiculous outflank.

Get really mean an add two IC's to the unit. Say Gahzy and a trciked out warboss. The turn they come in they WAAAGH! as well meaning nothing is safe.

That honestly sounds like one of the scariest tactics I have ever heard of... Two tanks absolutely demolished, a squad flamed then assaulted, and your opponents army is forced into the center of the map to avoid it. You might be able to turtle in a corner, but I am not so sure that would end all that well.

Kroot bubble-wrap would be the only thing between a two turn game and survival, for a Tau player.

If this works out right and I can get down the right combo and right tactics for using them just right....I am gonna need a LOT more Kommandos

Vasarto wrote:If this works out right and I can get down the right combo and right tactics for using them just right....I am gonna need a LOT more Kommandos

Why the Kommandos aren't scary, it's the pair of IC's they bring in stick wit Snik, 2x Burnas, and a minimum number of Kommandos and let the thinks that actually kill do their job.


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Wrexasaur wrote:That honestly sounds like one of the scariest tactics I have ever heard of... Two tanks absolutely demolished, a squad flamed then assaulted, and your opponents army is forced into the center of the map to avoid it. You might be able to turtle in a corner, but I am not so sure that would end all that well.

Kroot bubble-wrap would be the only thing between a two turn game and survival, for a Tau player.

'

No forced to the center 19" away from any board edge. Sknirot can come in from any edge he chooses not just a flank.