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Is he the best unit in the game? 90 pts + spore, and he absolutely destroys everything. I lost 10 Khorne Beserkers and 8 Plague Marines in two turns to him. Do you think he's cheap? He's at the very least, undercosted. Imagine what he could do to Guard (Ld7)?

Undercosted yes, the best no.

There simply is no best unit in the game only "better at the moment" units. I only say this because I have seen a mob of gretchin kill and entire squad of assault marines.

He is tremendously undercosted.

You have to remember though that a lot of his power is dependent on how you rule his confusing special rules. Until the FAQ he's inconsistently powerful.

He also dies very quickly so he's a suicide unit, one that will almost certainly make his pts back but in a KP game you're often trading 2 KP (him and his spore) for 1 or 2 enemy KP's. sometimes he'll do better though.

And he uses up an elites slot which nids need for their good anti-tank units (hive guard and zoes).

So he's not OMG totally broken but he is very, very powerful for his pts.

He's T4 I4 without Eternal Warrior. Sure it's got a 3+ Invul (if you're a resonable player that is - stupid RAW!), but enough S8 fire and it dies just as fast as any other MEQ.

I've never had him used against me to much effect. Sure he killed some guys and got stronger; S7 W7 once I think, but then I nailed him with a pair of lascannons before his next turn.

Hah, he shrugged off 7 Berserker power fist attacks, at a direct hit vindicator shell, and swept aside 3 TL-Lascannon shots over the course of 2 turns.

Doom is amazing for the points but it is a single model that can be instant deathed by S8+ and does nothing to Fearless units or units that auto pass leadership tests. So it has it's place and can be a pain in the . But I have seen it DS off target and get popped before it got to do anything.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps suggesting S8+ fire against him when normal small arms fire is far more effective. He's only got a 3++ save; a single Tactical Squad using Rapid Fire should be able to take him down in one volley.

unbeliever87 wrote:I'm not sure why everyone keeps suggesting S8+ fire against him when normal small arms fire is far more effective. He's only got a 3++ save; a single Tactical Squad using Rapid Fire should be able to take him down in one volley.

Not if he's got 10 wounds at the moment, they shouldn't.

If he hasn't generated a load of wounds you can bring him down with small arms. If he has you really need to bring him down with Str 8 shots or higher.

I suspect the best use for him will be an army full of big guys, where you're stretching the enemy's AT weapons already. Drop him down in a spore pod, get off a decent shot and force the enemy to use their AT weapons on him to bring him down that turn. If you're lucky you'll soak a few with your 3++ before they kill him, leaving your other big guys unmolested for a turn.

If I had to face him, I'd bring a psycannon or two.

Hitting on 3's
Wounding on 2's
ignores both saves
repeat for the number of shots and other psycannons

Not going to be much of a 'nid left after one volley from these bad boys.

That or ID him in close combat with a grand master.

He usually doesn't kill a hell load before he dies when I bring him out. What he excels at though is making a big stink and forcing my opponent to focus fire on him "cause he's scary!!" while my MCs move in closer to smash some tanks.

Doom is great against infantry, but so is everything else in the nid codex

unbeliever87 wrote:I'm not sure why everyone keeps suggesting S8+ fire against him when normal small arms fire is far more effective. He's only got a 3++ save; a single Tactical Squad using Rapid Fire should be able to take him down in one volley.

Because whenever I fight him he has 10 wounds. Can a tac squad usually kill the equivalent of another tac squad in one rapid fire volley? Didn't think so.

The Doom is a great distraction unit, like daemon princes and their ilk.

The "kill me!!!" style units that you opponent *has* to deal with - and lets your other, more important stuff get close.

at 'ard boyz i saw a player use him to wipe out 67 guardsmen. in one shot. he took a lascannon to the face, but won the game as the guy had no scoring units left.

chimera wall guard?

it was a Blob squad and a heavy weapons platoon.

Haha...got to love that.

Sure the Doom can die in a single turn...but sometimes a single turn of Doom is absolutely devastating.

Now spod that Doom down and Tervigon FnP him...situational yes...awesome...YES!

I like using him in combat as well. $ attacks at str 10 can mess up some tanks or a unit.

In 'Ard Boyz I saw Maugen-Ra take him out with one shot.

It's really op .

I've played him a few times, but he's never really given me problems. Only a 3++ save stands between him and instant death from meltas, fists, etc etc

The times I've fought him he spodded in, got 1 turn to try to do something nasty, and was promptly obliterated the next turn.

MinMax wrote:

unbeliever87 wrote:I'm not sure why everyone keeps suggesting S8+ fire against him when normal small arms fire is far more effective. He's only got a 3++ save; a single Tactical Squad using Rapid Fire should be able to take him down in one volley.

Not if he's got 10 wounds at the moment, they shouldn't.

Of course he does, my bad. I'm thinking of regular Zoanthropes that should be taken down with small arms fire. Move along, nothing to see here.

Anavrin - however, if you are reasonably lucky that is 2/3/more S8+ shots that *arent* shooting thebig bugs making their way across the table. Etc.

Doom is a wonderful distraction, who *can* cause havoc if your opponent lets him!

Seconded! Every wound prevented on a Carnifex or Trygon because the shot was directed somewhere else (DOOM) is equivalent to saving 40 points. This goes for venomthropes as well. On top of that point efficiency, the Doom itself can drain models from the opponent.

The doom rarely misses out on making his 90 points back.

He's undercosted as hell and too risky.
He killed 3 PM's out of one squad of 7 then died to the meltagun that was in range. He's not that good, trust me.
If you bring that down infront of a mechanized DE player he will laugh as he vaporizes that thing with dark lances.
Greetsz,
Mr. Self Destruct

The Doom is best used as a panic switch, to get the "OMFG, I have to kill that!" reaction from your opponent while the rest of your army sets up its own action. If it's undercosted, it's not by much, as no one would use it at 150 points.

He's undercosted but isnt too good? Huh? Something doesnt work.

He is a great distraction - and while the DE may laugh at killing the unit in its miss, thats one turn it has limited its choices on movement - a plus for tyranids.

Somehow i see a repeat of bang head against wall, like people and pyrovores or heavy venom cannons...

nosferatu1001 wrote:He's undercosted but isnt too good? Huh? Something doesnt work.

He is a great distraction - and while the DE may laugh at killing the unit in its miss, thats one turn it has limited its choices on movement - a plus for tyranids.

Somehow i see a repeat of bang head against wall, like people and pyrovores or heavy venom cannons...

Missing factor: opportunity cost. That Tyranid Elite slot is EXTREMELY valuable, as may hold the Doom, Deathleaper, Ymgarl, Hive Guard, and normal Zoanthropes. The only reasont to take the Doom is that he's fairly cost-effective; if he cost 150 pts, a unit of Hive Guard would be a better choice. (Frankly, I'm not convinced that he's worthwhile at any cost, at least in the style of list I like to play - aside from the rules "discussions" that using him necessitates, that's a REALLY VALUABLE elite slot he's filling up, and he's not doing much to help with the anti-mech shortage.)

I have to agree with the consensus in this thread; he is undercosted, and a wonderful distraction, but isn't all that nasty. Don't get me wrong, he hurts, but you just have to hit him with something fitting.

My personal favorite is to run a Slaaneshi lord with a Blissgiver into him. Very plain, very simple.
Plus, I almost always have the Slaaneshi lord, because he works wonders against the new 'nids.

Edit: I also wanted to bring in what Jathkin mentioned. It does make the 'nid player pay a significant cost in the terms of an elite slot.

What is the Doom of Malan'tai? I've seen him mentioned around, but no one has really explained what it is.