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Actually, I went the opposite direction.

My FLGS has an escalation league, and upon winning with my Space Marines I was told that I wouldn't be eligible to play the next one with the same army, chapter nonwithstanding. Had to be a totally different army.

So I started CSM. I don't see where all the hate for the Chaos Space Marines dex comes from. There are some very competitive builds. It may not be *as* competitive as Blood Angels but there's more to 40k than writing lists.

Nitros14 wrote:
Again, I think the reaction against it comes most harshly from people who played with the old 3rd edition Codex. That book was twice as long and had so much cool stuff and wacky special rules and Chaos Legion specific army lists that they cropped out. Oh and the 'Eternal Hatred' rule that prevented mixing Khorne/Slaanesh and Nurgle/Tzeentch. And the 'Favoured Unit' rule that let you upgrade Aspiring Champions for free/+1 on reserves rolls if their unit number was equal to their God's Sacred Number. And a lot more cool God Specific lore and Books of Chaos.

P.S. Vehicle God dedications. Land Raiders of Tzeentch with Coruscating Warp Flame. The Tzeentch power 'Twisting Path' that let you gain victory points by implanting psychic suggestions into your opponents mind to achieve some ineffable goal.

Yeah, it's definitely less spicey but no less spicey than most other codices. The game's just become less crazy overall.

I mean, somewhere out there, there's a guy crying about not being able to use his Squat army anymore. And my Swooping Hawk exarch with the Vortex Grenade hasn't helped me out since 2nd edition. Adapt, Overcome, and Play Specialist Games for nostalgia.

candy.man wrote:People hate the current CSM book because when you compare it to an imperial MEQ book, there is a greater choice of units and upgrades, for less points (and even less $$$ in some cases). Take this example, 170 points for Huron Blackheart who has a powerfist, powerweapon, heavy flamer, a 5+ inv save and warptime. Vulcan costs 190 points and has a master crafted str 6 power weapon, a 3+ inv save, a heavy flamer and makes all melta and flamer weapons in the army twin linked.

As well as this, an ordinary SM captain can take both a fist and a powerweapon at the same time where as a Chaos lord can only have one. An SM captain has more wargear choices full stop then a Chaos lord. The entire SW army has acute senses and counter attack and can get eternal warrior for their generic lord. When you compare the CSM book with others, you can’t help but understand why people are jumping ship.

Huron vs. Vulcan is an unfair comparison. Huron is really no big deal, where as Vulcan is arguably the best Codex Marine HQ choice and a bargain for what he does.

Let's look at the units which actually do the killing:

Chaos Terminators vs. Imperial Terminators. Chaos Terminators are cheaper, can use marks and powerweapons as well as be upgraded to champions, can take combimeltas, powerfists, etc. They're far more versatile, and can be taken in smaller squads. The only thing they don't get is TH/SS.

Let's look at anti-mech squads. Chosen w/ 4 meltaguns vs... nothing. Nothing in the vanilla Marine dex has anything that can squeeze so many meltaguns in a squad except for Sternguard with combimeltas. Big deal. Overpriced and one hit wonders.

Let's look at troops choices. Vanilla Marines have a couple choices: Tactical Marines or uh...scouts...Chaos Marines have a dedicated assault unit (Berzerkers), a dedicated tarpit (Plague Marines), a dedicated shooty unit (Noise Marines), and a dedicated overpriced unit (1k sons, jk btw). Then they have diet versions of all of these via marks.

The only important thing Vanilla Marines can field, which CSM cannot, IMO anyway is Land Speeders. The rest is just fluff and stuff. As far as Nuts n Bolts units, they're far more versatile. The independent characters may suck but ICs aren't what wins you the game. You can field 2 as HQ choices and they're all expensive. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have 2 Lash Sorcerors than 1 Marneus Calgar.