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Lots of the chaos players in my area jumped ship when the SW codex came out, making their armies into counts-as SW. I kept with my Emperor's Children, but then the BA codex came out. With lots of hand-flamers (smaller doomsirens), the Flamestorm cannon Baal predators (BIG doomsirens) and the ridiculous amount of high-initiative, high-WS characters with TONS of FNP tossed around from drug dispens-I mean priests, all on marines obsessed with beauty to the point where some wear angelic golden masks....this army is SCREAMING for me to convert my Slaanesh chaos marines into counts-as BA.

I've already made a squad of Sanguinary Guard using a combination of the SG bits and the Possessed Sprue. They look AMAZING, and I'm debating taking the plunge. How many people in your areas have already done so?

(I actually first considered this when the new SM codex came out, and actually thought of converting some of my units to carry banners that said "we're sorry, please take us back" and run everything as counts-as Imperial SM. Mostly because of the thunderhammer termies!)

It's a shame the CSM codex is so bad, because they have the potential to be the coolest army in the game IMO. For instance, when I wanted to make an all Khorne army that wasn't god awful, I chose to make an army based on the SW codex with Blood Claws representing my berserker.

I could even field Juggernaughts in a non Daemon Army (Thunderwolves) and get something besides the "Meh" Land Raider Chaos gets.

Yeah, been seeing a lot of Juggernaught thunderwolves around. Both SW and BA better represent different chaos factions than the chaos codex does. Even regular SM can represent Tzeentch chaos better than the chaos codex, with terminators with better invul saves [characteristic of tzeentch] and Sorcerers that teleport their troops around.

You know. The only reason I haven't done that is because im so stubborn and my lodgic works like this. "If I wana play a Chaos army then I should play with a Chaos codex"

I don't think I need to spew my hatred of the current dex into this thread do I?

I still have hope for my Chaos list, but I to have seen the switch among some players.

A Khorne player switched to Blood Angels recently, here. I don't really blame him.

What really irks me is the psyker abilities SW and SM get are really better than Chaos. Ahriman is a 250 point hero they fluff out to be some god and he has such junky powers to choose from compared to just a regular Librarian or Rune Priest.

But the other codices have better offense, defense, options. It's gotten to the point I think Chaos can count on 1 hand, minus a few fingers, it's bonuses over other races. Like MC, Defilers, Obliterators. I think just about everything else can be replicated. And they also have a ton more goodies.

My night lords are now BA. I get flying dreads. Sanguinor or meph as my uber chaos lord and Death company as my chosen. they evern have awesome transport skimmers, and I can go back to using 4 units of raptors like my last codex.

For a while I've been resisting the pull due to the same stubborn "I play Chaos, I should use the Chaos codex" mentality. But BA has all the high init high WS Slaaneshi things....

i can see the space marine codexs working much better than the current chaos one at portraying the different chaos armies. and to be honest i cant blame anyone for switching. i would too

Shadowbrand wrote:You know. The only reason I haven't done that is because im so stubborn and my lodgic works like this. "If I wana play a Chaos army then I should play with a Chaos codex"

I don't think I need to spew my hatred of the current dex into this thread do I?

Same, I'm one of the few who haven’t jumped ship. I should probably jump ship as well but I hate proxying and mixing armies/codices. My rage towards GW burns hotter than the sun. I wish GW would do a PDF codex update for chaos instead of yet again another imperial update (almost back to back imperial updates this year). Seriously, if this keeps up, there will be no one left in 40k, everyone would have jumped ship to warmachine....

None here. Someday a new Chaos codex will come out...

i want to chaos are exactly the same as spacemarines only they suck now, i hate gw

I just started, and I admit, I'm a tiny bit disappointed, but I intend to try out all the cult troops, save Plague Marines, which I finf kind of 'meh'. I play for fun, and I will use my fluffy army with the intended Codex and will win occasionally!

No "counts-as" for me, though I don't blame anyone else if they do so.

To preface, I originally played Lost and the Damned because they were a ton of fun. So I had a couple Aspiring Champions. Then I wanted to expand, and I hit a roadblock.

The Chaos codex sucks and there's not much to talk about there. I found that for a Khorne army, the Spacewolves worked perfectly. You can have a mix of long range death and close combat death, just as Khorne intended. Remember, it doesn't matter from where the blood flows, only that it flows. So I have Grey Hunters (Legionnaires) in squads of 8. 2 groups of 4 Long Fangs.

It's still very fluffy and I like it that way. Plus I don't have to deal with being called a cheesemonger. So that's always a plus. When I set out to make a Khornate Legionnaire army, I wanted to make sure it was true to the background but I also like that it is still fairly powerful. Sure it won't win against optimized lists but my LGS is pretty laid back so it's all good.

The great thing about SW as khorne is you can take talismans to give psychic defense without librarians, and characters can hit on 3+ to be like mini-kharns. But check out BA! compare death company to berserkers. Less points for even deadlier close combat!

Sure is a lot of crying in here. Less QQ, more pewpew. Please.

If Chaos players are incompitent enough to leave chaos and jump on the latest SM codex, then good. More baddies to filter out.

Rather than jumping ship, I'm taking what wreckage I can and making my own boat to salvage my escape. Last tourny I went to placed 6th of 40 with the storms of BA, SW and Marine players.

I don't know I don't think of the Chaos Codex as 'bad' per se, just boring.

I'll still be fielding whatever atrocity they throw at me that they call 'Thousand Sons rules' myself.

I got 5th out of a decent amount at the Alamo GT, and had I made some smarter decisions in round 5 [see battle reports] I could have easily made 2nd in best general.

That being said, I'm just looking at the collection I have, and the models that are in it, and when compared to the BA codex I could do so many more things. My raptors could be assault marines [with more special rules, tougher, more options, better], or Sanguinary guard [with more flavor, killiness, better saves, tougher], or even honor guard [for a better character that's got more attacks with the same strength as a daemon prince but a better save and more toughness and wounds], or even heck Vanguard Veterans, with special rules and more weapon options.

My sonic blaster noisemarines could be special-issue ammo Sternguard veterans, and my army could have its combat drugs again in the form of sanguinary priests dishing them out to the army.

I'm still a true servant of the warp. Praise Tzeentch! All Thousand Sons, all the time.

I haven't seen people around here do it yet, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. It doesn't bother me too much which set of rules someone wants to use for their little plastic and metal dudes.

pops101 wrote:chaos are exactly the same as spacemarines

I see you haven't actually read Codex: Chaos Space Marines then...

I'm still using my Chaos Codex, and I am the only Chaos Player around, so none in my area. I would much rather work with a lackluster army compared to these newer ones, so that when my codex comes out, I will hopefully be a step ahead of everyone who is jumping to a counts as army.

Someday, my fellow Chaos players, our prints will come.....

I would say that most people I know who are using SW and BA again are veteran players whose original SW and BA armies were taking dust from years.

My Emperor's Children got benched the day the new Chaos codex came out. Its not that the new Chaos codex is weak, it just doesn't represent my army in the slightest.

I'd consider using BA counts as (I already have a true SW army), except that there just isn't a good use for my 18 damonettes (the cool metal ones), or the converted sonic blasters. (Blastmasters make decent missile launcher proxies).

I guess I count my defiler as a vindicator.

I plan to use my sonic blaster noisemarines as sternguard. Their weapons are special
enough to be special issue ammo, and they can play one facemelting solo before
their amps blow out (combi-melta). Defilers can be death company dreads, they even
both ignore crew shaken and stunned!

Actually, I went the opposite direction.

My FLGS has an escalation league, and upon winning with my Space Marines I was told that I wouldn't be eligible to play the next one with the same army, chapter nonwithstanding. Had to be a totally different army.

So I started CSM. I don't see where all the hate for the Chaos Space Marines dex comes from. There are some very competitive builds. It may not be *as* competitive as Blood Angels but there's more to 40k than writing lists.

The hate for C:CSM comes from the fact that people can't use their favorite legion's special rules anymore.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Actually, I went the opposite direction.

My FLGS has an escalation league, and upon winning with my Space Marines I was told that I wouldn't be eligible to play the next one with the same army, chapter nonwithstanding. Had to be a totally different army.

So I started CSM. I don't see where all the hate for the Chaos Space Marines dex comes from. There are some very competitive builds. It may not be *as* competitive as Blood Angels but there's more to 40k than writing lists.

Again, I think the reaction against it comes most harshly from people who played with the old 3rd edition Codex. That book was twice as long and had so much cool stuff and wacky special rules and Chaos Legion specific army lists that they cropped out. Oh and the 'Eternal Hatred' rule that prevented mixing Khorne/Slaanesh and Nurgle/Tzeentch. And the 'Favoured Unit' rule that let you upgrade Aspiring Champions for free/+1 on reserves rolls if their unit number was equal to their God's Sacred Number. And a lot more cool God Specific lore and Books of Chaos.

P.S. Vehicle God dedications. Land Raiders of Tzeentch with Coruscating Warp Flame. The Tzeentch power 'Twisting Path' that let you gain victory points by implanting psychic suggestions into your opponents mind to achieve some ineffable goal.