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Hi there!

My goal for this summer if to fully paint my Word Bearers Army and its Coaxial Deamon/admech army!

my problem is i lack the time for decent work; and my standards are moderate. for my lesser deamons i was thinking of dipping them as well as all my standard csm, leaving detailed patinting to the mech, HQ, MS's ect. what does everyone think of this? I don't know if i should use stain or that armybuilder stuff. and would it work at all? I mean i'm not playing nids here. My CSM Word bearers main color is well... ill post what the general scheme is but its foundation red, then red gore then scab red with chainmail or boltgun metal trim. would this work at all?


also! Varnish, should i even use it? it will only make my models shiny right? im ignorant of varnish!

DIPPING!? Spay them, air brush them, pay someone else to paint them, but please don't dip them. If your looking for speed:

-Spray prime them all.
-Airbrush/spay with the appropriate colour.
-Wash with red.
-wash with thinned D mud.
-Maybe some thin black wash into the deepest bits.

At leasts then they have SOME detail and would be easy to finish off at a later date.

As for varnish, don't if your planning on painting them more later.

Varnish will prevent your paint from chipping. Gloss varnish gives the best protection, but will make your models shiny. The usual advice is to varnish first with gloss, for protection, and then with matt varnish, to take the shine away.

If you're going to do what Dread said, then be sure that the layers of varnish are thin, otherwise the varnish will build up and all kinds of trouble will be on your hands.

I use minwax on all my minis, but that's because they're Death Guard & it gives them a nice slimy look. Plus it gives the olive green color a nice wash of oak brown (iirc that's the stain I chose) and of course there's the coating & protection too. Don't do it until you're absolutely sure you don't want to add anything else to the model though 'cause it is a FINISHING touch & can't be simple greened away. For Word Bearers since you probably don't want that slimy look I'd go with something light like a white pine or the whitest varnish you can find & go very light. I just globb mine on with a paint brush, but for a lighter coat you may want to use a method I saw here a while back. Guy glued the base to a wooden dowel, dipped them & then loaded the dowel into a power drill to spin dry. That way you don't get the pools of it collecting in the corners.

Hmmm.... I'll try it on 1 CSM and see how it works out. No matter I plan on dipping my deamons. Varnish is final final? Without varnish my minis are pretty shiny I don't want it rediculous. As for dipping with my s heme hmm?


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can anyone link me? and if its too risky with CSM and powerarmor and all that i could always brush the stuff on.... ahh!?

Using Quickshade or other stuff like Minwax can give you quite nice results if you give it a little care. So what Hits_the_spot is saying is strongly exaggerated imho. But everybody is entitled to his opinion. Don´t let yourself get discouraged by sich a reaction. If you find a way that works for you what other´s say is not important. What is a good advice though is to paint on the Shade instead of dipping the model as dipping and then shaking of wastes too much material.

In your case the problem is rather that Shades of different builds work best on lighter colours. It can work on darker ones but not to as good an effect.

If you look at my minis in the links below you can see what you can achieve with Quickshade. They were just basecoated white (from the can), basepainted, slightly drybrushed (white in case of the yellow for example), some details painted (like gems, eyes, highlights on black and red), then Shaded and then varnished matte. As most Shade-solutions are quite shiny you should varnish matte if you don´t want a glossy finish.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cplhicks/sets/72157623991539514/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cplhicks/sets/72157623417356343/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cplhicks/sets/72157623448884414/

And some Ultramarine and Bloodangels prototypes:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cplhicks/sets/72157623591653202/

If you have any questions, don´t hesitate to ask or to write me a PM.

Welcome Mr.Saphos!

You should chuck up a link to your b&c tutorial articles too!

Saphos is a quickshade master, take his word for it Ironfrontalex.

Well, master is saying too much but I seem to be doing more things right than wrong. Is that kind of linking okay here? I was to transfer and combine my posts from B&C here later.

Well, until I manage to bring it here, here are the links to B&C about how I did my minis linked above.

Bloodangels prototypes and general thoughts on Quickshade-use:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=199002

The Dreadnought and my way to do yellow:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=194045

Thanks so much! For my bloodletters I was thinking red foundation and greay or brown hair (I got 3rd edition gorilla deamons!) and yellow horns, for the zombie pluage bearers maybe yellow on clothes and horns and rotting flesh since its pretty light as skin? For my word bearers I will try this on one model anyone got a suggesting for a think coat and a good spray matte varnish? I already got shiny models without varnish.

Maybe for.my word bearers I could use red foundation then a later of red gore, then yellow horns, boltgun metal or chainmail trim or codex grey trim? Shade black?

I use Vallejo matte varnish from the can. I had problems with the Armypainter matte varnish. It seems that if you apply it too thickly it can ruin the Shade. It well did with my minis. I didn´t have problems of that kind with the Vallejo varnish. Just the usual problem that if you you use too much, fogging might occur. So just using like one or two light coats.

For the choice of colours, the lighter, the better. For your deamons, this recipe sounds as it will work nicely. I recommend using a light drybrush on the colours you proposed. So a little white on the yellow, a little white or bright orange on the red, a little bleached bone or white on the rotting flesh. It is always best to try it out on one model as you suggest yourself.

Which tone of Quickshade do you use. All I say is based on the use of Strong Tone.

For your Spacemarines, you could go with the Quickshade as well as you see with my minis. For what you wrote down, the horns trim etc. are in colours that are working with the Shade. The basecolour of the armour is a tad dark. Look at my Bloodangels testminis to see how much bloodred is darkened. If you like this, go with your recipe and try it out. So a basecolour with a red darker than Bloodred (but not the darkest red you have, darkness will be achieved by the Shade), then a light drybrush with either a lighter red or if you like strong highlights/contrasts as I do, you go with white or bright orange. After that you Shade. You should get a quite dark red, with highlights shining through. As with your deamons, do a test mini first to see whether it works.

Hope that helps.

I will totally try this and post them on my p an M blog! I need to find the materials tho... only online? Boo!

P.s I saw your BA but I need something much darker. With my army right now it takes a while to find my desired color, red foundation, then red gore, then scab red.

what is quickshade

www.thearmypainter.com

I dipped my first models. they look like they just came out of a washing machine

Never dip, spray and wash them (not washing machine wash, before you bring that up)


-Now that I think about it one of my first models may have been through the washing machine-

It is kinda hard to understand what your exact point is.

You don´t like quickshading your minis because you failed at it oder you don´t recommend using the techniques together? Please explain, I am really interested. What do you think about the results I achieved? Are they washing machine like, too?

I understand that there are people out there that don´t like the results you can achieve with using Quickshade or something similar. The problem is most of the time it is not differentiated argument but rather "omfg, don´t use it, it´s crap" without explaining why.

Saphos do you think quickshade would work well with darker too? what about my metal trim? i dont want black armor out of it haha.


p.s do you perffer quicksade of the woof stain?

I did write that it works better with lighter colours, didn´t I? I don´t have experience with darker colours as I prefer lighter ones. So If you like really dark cours, it can work but you have to try it out on a test model. See my posts above. The metal trim should be fine, even if you use boltgun metal and darken it down with Badab Black. Look at my minotaurs armor for how that looks. I did highlight with Mithril though.

great thank you! in about a week i should start trying to dip my deamons, i'll try a marine or two also!

p.s final word, quickshade or the wood stain>?

I have only ever used Quickshade (so far), you will have to try out what works with woodstain. There are several brands recommended for that, I read about Minwax Polyshade quite often but you will have to do a search on that for yourself.

K. Bought the darkest minwax I could find, chesnut. If this does nt work out I'll use quicksade or a lighter wax, couldn't it be assumed that is my armor was dark red then lighter shading should work? I also bought krylon matte varnish

I've done a bit of dipping, too. It can look pretty good in some situations. I suggest that you head down to your local grocery store or dollar store and buy some really crappy and cheap paint brushes for kids. Then, I would actually paint the Minwax on, instead of actually dipping the mini into the can. It gives you more control and then it's (nearly) impossible for you to drop the figure into the can, which I've done many times. You might think it takes longer, but in my opinion it's the same as dipping, since you won't have to spend as much time trying to get the excess dip back off of the figures.

Good luck, it's fun.

anyone in the uk use this dipping method if so what do you use as your dip

http://www.librarium-online.com/painting/a-quick-guide-to-dipping-your-minis-885.html

Pretty good link for dipping. And I'd recommend Minwax Polyshades Antique Walnut Satin. You don't want it to be too dark.

And some pics of some berzerkers I did myself.





And the "before" and "after":

Those are excellent examples of good dipping, whitedragon. I really like those figures. It's a possibility that I could see myself making a CSM army some day, after my Tau army is completed. Maybe I'd just start with a CSM killteam and make them quick to paint with dipping.

About Varnish and dipping:
Most Dips are polyurethane based, so when you dip your figs, you're already essentially putting a layer of plastic protectant over your figs. Thus, after dipping, a protective varnish is not necessary. I've dipped all of my Guardsen and several of them have survived drops to the floor (accidental of course) with no damage to the paint. After dipping all you need is something to cut the "shine".

As for cutting the dipping shine, I use cheap hardware store matte spray. It's not a true matte (more like a satin) and leaves a touch of shine, but I like it. If you use a higher quality matte spray like Vallejo or Testors dulcote, you should be able to get rid of all the shine quite quickly.

Lastly, I highly recommend using the Minwax Antique Walnut color that White Dragon used and painting the dip on rather than actually dipping it. It's simple, easy to control, can be done at your desk and when setup and cleanup are figured in, it's probably just as fast as the traditional dunk-dip meathod.

whitedragon wrote:http://www.librarium-online.com/painting/a-quick-guide-to-dipping-your-minis-885.html
Pretty good link for dipping. And I'd recommend Minwax Polyshades Antique Walnut Satin. You don't want it to be too dark.
And some pics of some berzerkers I did myself.

White Dragon,
Thank you so much for those pictures, they look great! I've got a BA army that I painted years ago (base and details with no wash or hightlights) that I want to dip, but I've been holding off for fear about how antique walnut would look on broad expanses of red armor. No fear now!

Atomsmasher and Eilif, thanks for the kind words. I actually have alot of pictures of stuff I have dipped. I used the dunk method because I could never get it to brush on properly, and whenever I thinned the stuff with Mineral Spirits, it game out very gross and the pigment separated from the urethane.

Also, one thing to remember with dipping is to stay away from White and Black. Use solid, bright colors, and when dipping with brown (antique walnut satin), stick towards a more "natural" or "warm" palette. Brown shades red, orange, yellowish or pale green, yellow, bone, brown, gold, etc etc. Stay away from colors that have "blue" in them, as the brown will just make them look muddy, like purple, blue-ish green, and etc.

And what's even better are the new citadel washes. Devlan Mud or Badab Black mixed with Future Floor Wax works very well, is acryllic so can be thinned with water, and can be brushed on easily and will not create a huge mess. The Devlan Mud is also a good substitute for Antique Walnut Satin if you are trying to match it up.

I used a fast-drying, water soluble (so didn't have to use thinners to wash my brushes) light oak wood stain for these -







(could do with better pictures I know)

I actually dipped them - had to hold each mini for about 5mins each for the excess to come off & even this wasn't enough.
I have heard of people blutaking there minis to a dremel drill then spinning it in a buck (to avoid painting the room with varnish) but I didn't want to try that with resin (images of a mini flying accross the room & ending up in a milion pieces!).

I've bought the army painter stuff but not tried it yet.

I think the choice of mini & the choice of dip is very important.
If in doubt, try on a spare mini first to check to see if you like the result.

I was lucky with mine as the extra goop works with nurgle minis (I think)

whitedragon wrote:http://www.librarium-online.com/painting/a-quick-guide-to-dipping-your-minis-885.html

Pretty good link for dipping. And I'd recommend Minwax Polyshades Antique Walnut Satin. You don't want it to be too dark.

And some pics of some berzerkers I did myself.





And the "before" and "after":

HOW DID YOU DO THIS? what colors?
This is exactally what i want to accomplish just with a slighly darker red!


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ALSO! i have the miniwax walnut one.