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In my drunk addled, sleep deprived state, i pondred to myself "So tyranids are evolved with a specific function in mind- Eg. A guant to swarm the enemy, a mawloc to make tunnels. But, if it was seperated from the hive, would they evolve naturally? i pictured in my mind a tyranid going feral, and evolving to become the biggest, baddest bastard on the whole game reserve....

Is it plausible...?

Not really .

Apparently some do if they are stranded or are vanguard organisms

There's lots of fluff about Tyranid organisms evolving on their own when seperated from other Tyranids.

Remember, there is no central 'creature' that 'is' the Hive Mind.

Rather, the Hive Mind is the amalgation of the consciousness of every single Tyranid connected through the synapse network.

So stranded Tyranid organisms become their own 'Hive Mind' so to speak, along with whatever Tyranid creatures are nearby, just as Genestealers are well known to form their own Brood Telepathy while seperated from the main bulk of the Tyranid race. It's the nature of the beast.

Your not getting any more Ideas are you...

But as the each evolved for a specific purpose i would say yes but not on the lowest ripper level, maby infiltration level look at the Ymargal Geanstealers for example.

also their was a bit of fluff in the last codex about feral tyranids, the Catachan Devil is aparently an example of it.

Tyranids are the scariest lifeform becasue they can basically control their own evolution. They are cognizant of their DNA.

ghosty wrote:In my drunk addled, sleep deprived state, i pondred to myself "So tyranids are evolved with a specific function in mind- Eg. A guant to swarm the enemy, a mawloc to make tunnels. But, if it was seperated from the hive, would they evolve naturally? i pictured in my mind a tyranid going feral, and evolving to become the biggest, baddest bastard on the whole game reserve....

Is it plausible...?

Yeah, just wait a million years

They do evolve on their own if stranded away from a hive fleet. It's no quicker than any other creature evolving of course, as they don't actively select DNA or anything, it's the norn queens that do that when creating them.

In the last 'nid codex there was a bit about how they think that this isn't the first time tyranids were in the galaxy, and that they might have devoured all life here at least once before. Reason being they found out that certain animals (catachan devil) were genetically linked with tyranids but not with their native planets.

ever since the tyranids have been identified as a threat many Insectoid creatures have been considered as possable degenerate Tyranic organisims.



Genestealers are completely independent of the hive mind. they don't rely on it to perform their directive. Lictors can also do this.




all tyranid organisms are capable of surviving outside the hiveminds influence. they revert to natural "preprogrammed" instincts and become predators in the enviroment they find themselves in.

only Genestealers and Lictors will pose a greater threat then an extreamly dangerous predator as they have actual Sentient intellgence while everything else is just an animal.

not to mention look at the krakens on fernis. they ARE tyraind creatures but are often over looked

They can, but the hyperevolution where they can suddenly change in a few days is only when the larger bioships are available to allow for mass production.

As others have mentioned, some of the vanguard elements, such as genestealers will do so of their own accord, but that is part of their life cycle and what they race they infest. The Ymargl stalers had a worm like face as they would infect the giant slug/worms on the moons.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Tyranids are the scariest lifeform becasue they can basically control their own evolution. They are cognizant of their DNA.

Some of the fluff suggests the Catachan devil is a tyranid organism that adapted to its environment over time, which would be biological evolution.

What the tyranids are doing isn't evolution in the traditional sense because it isn't being done by natural selection. It is a selection process, no doubt, as the hive mind is clearly willing to sacrifice virtually any number of gaunts to measure and test a defense, then adapt the organism type to overcome it. Thats selection, but it is unnatural selection.

The analogy that works for me is imagining if evolution were conscious and could change genes due to selective pressure, rather than being a process of successful organisms reproducing and unsuccesful organisms not. Tyranid organisms do not reproduce, they are made.

all Tyranid organisms are capable of reproducing themselves, but they are also mass produced by the Hive ships reproductive vats.


the reason the hive does this is to allow some parts of a hive fleet to survive if the main ship/fleet is destroyed.

some of the orgnisims will survive and adapt to their new enviroment and hopefully becoming better at surviving whatever caused the hive fleet to be destroyed.

then when another fleet comes along it absorbs that surviving organisims and "learns" what they have learned and incorperates the DNA into the Fleets own code.

I remember reading that when 2 fleets meet they have a big fight to see which one has the strongest genetic material, then the winner eats the loser and absorbs all the best bits of DNA to add it to it's own.

Was a pretty cool idea

yes, but it is also done to stimulate the evolution of both fleets.


both become stronger, one is stronger and eats the other.

new fleet is much stronger then both combined.


Biomatter isn't wasted and Nid ships can photosynthisize to replace lost energy.

I think so. Moreover, Catachan's demon seemns to be a tyranid beast which had been separated from the rest of its race, so it evolved naturally.

Tyranids evolve naturally, but natural evolution is very slow. So you wouldn't notice it given their unnatural assimilation of DNA and resulting super-evolution.

Much like oil resources slowly regenerate through new organic material developing into oil, but nobody notices as the reserves are sucked dry much much faster than natural regeneration can happen.

Grignard wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Tyranids are the scariest lifeform becasue they can basically control their own evolution. They are cognizant of their DNA.

Some of the fluff suggests the Catachan devil is a tyranid organism that adapted to its environment over time, which would be biological evolution.

What the tyranids are doing isn't evolution in the traditional sense because it isn't being done by natural selection. It is a selection process, no doubt, as the hive mind is clearly willing to sacrifice virtually any number of gaunts to measure and test a defense, then adapt the organism type to overcome it. Thats selection, but it is unnatural selection.

The analogy that works for me is imagining if evolution were conscious and could change genes due to selective pressure, rather than being a process of successful organisms reproducing and unsuccesful organisms not. Tyranid organisms do not reproduce, they are made.

Yes, Unnatural selection is a good way to put it.

Grey Templar wrote:all Tyranid organisms are capable of reproducing themselves, but they are also mass produced by the Hive ships reproductive vats.

Really? Thought only Hormagaunts and Genestealers were capable of doing that. It does state in the new Codex that Genestealers reproduce independently of the Hive and Hormagaunts can do the same, laying hundreds of eggs just below the surface.

I could be wrong cause I read tho

Genestealers reproduce with other sentient life. look it up on Lexicanum for the desturbing details.


the rest use natural sexual reproduction. some types like spore mines and Fleshborers are Symbiotic organisms, providing a defensive respones in exchange for food and a place to live

Grey Templar wrote:Genestealers reproduce with other sentient life. look it up on Lexicanum for the desturbing details.


the rest use natural sexual reproduction. some types like spore mines and Fleshborers are Symbiotic organisms, providing a defensive respones in exchange for food and a place to live

I was aware of Genestealers, but I wasn't thinking of that as reproduction, but I suppose it is. Do you have a quote that nids, other than Genestealer hybrids, which are a special case, are capable of sexual reproduction?

I would side with no unless they are sufficiently separated by distance from any hive vessels. The hive mind meticulously shapes its organisms to suit its own ends. On the other hand lesser organisms from failed invasions revert back to base instincts of self preservation. So maybe if a spore containing a load of termagants was overlooked after decimating a hive invasion of some backwater planet. They might conceivably adapt over time to their new environment and do their best to survive. Because they and hormgaunts can reproduce. Its actually in the codex that when hormgaunts especially make landfall they seed the ground with eggs that rapidly hatch and mature to make reinforcement waves.

Grignard wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Genestealers reproduce with other sentient life. look it up on Lexicanum for the desturbing details.


the rest use natural sexual reproduction. some types like spore mines and Fleshborers are Symbiotic organisms, providing a defensive respones in exchange for food and a place to live

I was aware of Genestealers, but I wasn't thinking of that as reproduction, but I suppose it is. Do you have a quote that nids, other than Genestealer hybrids, which are a special case, are capable of sexual reproduction?

the 3rd book in the Ultramarine omnibus.


it says that when seperated from the hive mind the creatures revert to their instinctual behavior. Digging dens, hunting prey, reproducing to maintain their numbers.

Grey Templar wrote:

Grignard wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Genestealers reproduce with other sentient life. look it up on Lexicanum for the desturbing details.


the rest use natural sexual reproduction. some types like spore mines and Fleshborers are Symbiotic organisms, providing a defensive respones in exchange for food and a place to live

I was aware of Genestealers, but I wasn't thinking of that as reproduction, but I suppose it is. Do you have a quote that nids, other than Genestealer hybrids, which are a special case, are capable of sexual reproduction?

the 3rd book in the Ultramarine omnibus.


it says that when seperated from the hive mind the creatures revert to their instinctual behavior. Digging dens, hunting prey, reproducing to maintain their numbers.

Genestealers only reproduce via parasitic inpregnation. Thier genetic code becomes embedded in the host via the 'kiss' when the ovipositor on their tongue punctures the victim. The victim then reproduces via the natural method of the species, carrying the fusion of it's own and the genestealer's genes, resulting in hybrid offspring. They also possess the ability to go into a dormant state for very long periods of time.

So when they don't have a host species available, they just slumber.

Err, they also reproduce by normal means, too IIRC. Otherwise you'd see any noble line infected by them would suddenly come to an end.

Melissia wrote:Err, they also reproduce by normal means, too IIRC. Otherwise you'd see any noble line infected by them would suddenly come to an end.

Using a human male as example:


Purestrain infects *human male* with ovipositor, *human male* awakes with no recollection of the attack and becomes driven to find and reproduce with *human female*, intercourse carries genestealer binding code and infects the *human female* as well. Both are now carriers.

*human female* gives birth to 1st generation hybrids, strongly like purestrain genestealers, 4 or 3 limbs, stooped and reproduce like purestrains, via the ovipositor, leading to infected populace seeking to reproduce as with purestrain infections, leading to 2nd generation.

2nd generation less hunched, more of the host species traits to the fore, still unable to utilise advanced technology, still reproducing via the ovipositor, leading to the 3rd generation.

3rd generation, far more like the host species than the genestealer but possessing areas of chitin, fused digits like rudimentary claws and tell tale spinal ridge, teeth etc. but with the notable ability to use technology of host species. Many will be mules but a certain number will possess the ovipositor and these few are treasured because it is they that bring the all important 4th generation...

4th generation hybrids are almost indistinguishable from the host species, they reproduce in the same manner as the host species, A 4th generation male in a human society can seek out a vast number of females and impregnate them via sexual intercourse, they will all give birth to purestrain genestealers.

The 5th Generation. Purestrain Genestealers.

The cycle begins anew...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, purestrain genestealers don't have sex.

Only the 4th generation of hybrids do, the generation from which the Magus is selected.

reproduction is reproduction, no matter its form!


can they reproduce away from the Hive fleet? was the question that led to this. most definitly!

I think it would but I am not positive.

Thanks for the comments!

Ok, but say the hive fleet of a vanguard organism was obliterated in space, would the lictor/genestealers stop being nodes for the hiveships considering their fleet was wiped out?

And secondly, if a vanguard organism found itself on a planet with adverse conditions (such as ice worlds, death worlds, and magma worlds) would they undergo a fast evolution cycle to adapt to the enviroment before the enviroment kills them.

ghosty wrote:Thanks for the comments!

Ok, but say the hive fleet of a vanguard organism was obliterated in space, would the lictor/genestealers stop being nodes for the hiveships considering their fleet was wiped out?

And secondly, if a vanguard organism found itself on a planet with adverse conditions (such as ice worlds, death worlds, and magma worlds) would they undergo a fast evolution cycle to adapt to the enviroment before the enviroment kills them.

1) nope. There really is only one hive fleet. The Tyranid guided by The Hive Mind. They are all one.
2) nope. No need, 'nids are rock solid and can survive in almost any enviroment anyway.