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This is my current 'competitive' list. It has done fairly well, tabling an Ultramarine player and coming very close to tabling against a Guard and another Marine player, and I am looking for thoughts on what I could/should change or what wargear to swap. The Commander goes with a Broadside team, and they have Plasma as an extra back-up for deep-strikers/outflankers. It also means the otherwise static Array Team can move and fire for an extra turn or two. In an objective scenario the troops which are a bit thin can be off the board until turn 5. I could potentially fit in an extra TL Flamer suit or even a TL Burst suit to one of the teams, and on the 3rd point move one of the drones over. Its also designed to be a relatively low kill-point count - twelve.

Commander Coldpoint: 185
Shas'O, Plasma Rifle, Cyclic Ion Blaster, Positional Relay, Multi-Tracker, Iridium Armour, Bonding Knife, 2 x Shield Drone

Counter-Threat Crisis Team: 188
Shas'Vre, Twin-Linked Missile Pod, A.F.P., Bonding Knife, 2 x Gun Drone
Shas'Ui, Twin-Linked Flamer, Missile Pod
Shas'Ui, Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Flamer

Aurora Crisis Team: 156
Team Leader, Plasma Rifle, Burst Cannon, Targeting Array, Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife, 2 x Gun Drone
Shas'Ui, Plasma Rifle, Burst Cannon, Multi-Tracker

Hades Crisis Team: 140
Team Leader, Plasma Rifle, Twin-Linked Flamer, Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife, 2 x Gun Drone
Shas'Ui, Plasma Rifle, Flamer, Multi-Tracker

Piranha Shoal: 150
2 x Piranha, Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, Disruption Pods

Fire Warrior Team: 60
6 x Fire Warrior

Kroot: 70
10 x Kroot

Kroot: 82
12 Kroot

Ionhead: 130
Hammerhead, Ion Cannon, Burst Cannon, Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker

Broadside Team: 300
Team Leader, Targeting Array, Plasma Rifles, Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife, 2 x Shield Drone
Shas'Ui, Targeting Array, Plasma
Shas'Ui, Target Lock

Broadside Team: 285
Team Leader, A.S.S., Bonding Knife, 2 x Shield Drone, Target Lock 140
Shas'Ui, A.S.S.
Shas'Ui, A.S.S.

Criticisms? Thoughts?

Thanks,

Guy

What are you Fire Warriors doing? There's no fish available from your list, so they don't look like they're going to be surviving. I take it they're placed in reserve?

Yeah - if the Relay'O is with the Broadsides he becomes very difficult to kill, and so the Kroot and the Fire Warriors stay off the board until turn 5. The general idea is to overwhelm the opponent's transports/fast units in the first couple turns, allowing much easier management of what is left, especially if it is walking between a few wrecks as well as terrain. As I generally put the Array Broadsides on/close to a terrain-objective, when the Fire Warriors arrive they get joined by the 'O and hopefully a drone or two so they dont get shot off the objective. Hopefully the Piranhas, Outflanking Kroot and even suits are enough to contest the opponents objectives (or even sneakily arrive on them). I try to focus on capturing just one more objective than the opponent, and ensuring anything near his are shot off/contested.

guyrevell wrote:
Counter-Threat Crisis Team: 188
Shas'Vre, Twin-Linked Missile Pod, A.F.P., Bonding Knife, 2 x Gun Drone
Shas'Ui, Twin-Linked Flamer, Missile Pod
Shas'Ui, Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Flamer

Aurora Crisis Team: 156
Team Leader, Plasma Rifle, Burst Cannon, Targeting Array, Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife, 2 x Gun Drone
Shas'Ui, Plasma Rifle, Burst Cannon, Multi-Tracker

Hades Crisis Team: 140
Team Leader, Plasma Rifle, Twin-Linked Flamer, Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife, 2 x Gun Drone
Shas'Ui, Plasma Rifle, Flamer, Multi-Tracker

All the GDs ... not enough to bring your units' Major Toughness down, but ... I just like ShieldDs better ... but you've been successful.

guyrevell wrote:Broadside Team: 300
Team Leader, Targeting Array, Plasma Rifles, Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife, 2 x Shield Drone
Shas'Ui, Targeting Array, Plasma
Shas'Ui, Target Lock

A b-side team must take all the same 3rd hard points ... the team leader getting access to wargear. Was the TL and TA switch just a typo?

Overall, the fragility of your troops is the weakness, but the PosRelay counters that. Not the list I'd run, but as you say, you've done well.

Brothererekose wrote:A b-side team must take all the same 3rd hard points ... the team leader getting access to wargear. Was the TL and TA switch just a typo?

100% wrong here, I'm afraid. If one of the BS takes an ASS, they all must do so, but that is the only restriction.

Jokorey wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:A b-side team must take all the same 3rd hard points ... the team leader getting access to wargear. Was the TL and TA switch just a typo?

100% wrong here, I'm afraid. If one of the BS takes an ASS, they all must do so, but that is the only restriction.

You are quite right! I extrapolated that for *all* the battlesuit support systems. So it is A.s.s. only.

Heck. 5 years and still learning nuances in the codex.

Actually, they don't have to all take ASS, but if they don't all have it, none of them can use it.

I don't have my codex to hand but I'm pretty sure in the entry for the system it says 'If a member of a unit takes ASS then all members of the unit must take it' o words to that effect.

Thanks for all the positive comments To address the gun drone vs shield drone issue, with the assault jump move a cover save is almost guaranteed, and so the only real difference (thanks to the gun drones having a majority toughness of 4) is the 3+ save and absorbing power weapon wounds - but if the suits are in range to get charged then they've generally been shot a lot already. And most ap4 shots arn't strength 8 or higher, so I usually take them on the suits at first, to keep the drones alive to take a missile/lascannon hit. I really don't get lists that take suits with no drones - anyone else agree? If I was playing a Tau player with teams like that it would be so unfortunately easy to splat them.

I was thinking maybe downgrade a few things and add more Kroot or a TL Flamer suit to the Hades team and switching a gun drone over to him (essentially a 30 point suit, which is always nice) - but with everything but the commander taking only essential wargear, its a pain to find the points (and the commander's wargear is still pretty essential tbh, though that many points on a single model always makes me think about efficienc a bit). I didn't think the missile/flamer team was missiley enough to be a deathrain team, and I usually use them as a counter-outflank/deep strike unit, then moving them towards an opponents held objective/significant unit bearing down on my own, hence the name. As for 'hades' it just sounded cooler than 'Heatknife' or 'XV8 objective assault team' (from ATT).

On the Broadsides does anyone have any reports of whether they get any use out of plasma? Not a full multi/plasma team but a team leader/maybe 2nd member, when vehicle threats are gone and there is the possibility of having to move an array team?

Does anyone think there are any particularly glaring weaknesses? Does anyone have a list for any army that they think this would struggle to deal with?

Thanks again,

Guy

I can see two things that I would count as a glaring weakness. In objective based games you've got 200pts of your 1750 in troops, which means you will be trying to secure objectives with your 3 underpowered, footslogging, troop choices. You are going to have a difficult time taking objectives from people. You really are playing for a tie, or a table-ing (if that is a word).

Another weakness that I see is that this list seems to be that it is primarily an meq buster. I do see some flamers scattered about, and an ionhead in the mix, but against a dedicated horde army, you will have some problems. For example, at 1750 an ork kan wall list would give you some issues, or even a pure ork horde. Could this list put out enough fire power to take out 200+ t4 models and get past their 5+ cover saves? I think it would be difficult.

At the same time, there are so few horde players out there that I dont know this is really a deal breaker. Just my two bits.

I've found 'sides with plasma rifles and multi-trackers to be great fun! I don't think ASS is that essential.

Flamers on crisis suits = fail. If your crisis suits are close enough to be using their flamers, they're too close.

As standard as it is, Crisis suits with plasma rifles and missile pods work well, especially against mechanized lists.

Yeah, I was thinking an extra squad of kroot might be beneficial, or losing a kroot squad and finding the points for a scorefish. 3 lots of kroot gives a good chance of at least one of them arriving on the right table edge I guess

As for flamers on crisis suits, I'd agree they arn't useful unless as suicide units or with proper fire support. Adopting a flamers= awful attitide is a little closeminded - statistically a flamer, covering 6 marines, does more damage than rapid-firing them with a bs3 plasma rifle. Provided the flamers are only used in a timed attack with other units, they are incredibly useful, and also as a general 'keep away from me' sign. I'd totally agree with you if it was a case of a unit vs unit and you're thinking about trying to flame them.

I will post a slightly more balanced list in the next few days,

Thanks for the comments and advice

guyrevell wrote:Yeah, I was thinking an extra squad of kroot might be beneficial, or losing a kroot squad and finding the points for a scorefish. 3 lots of kroot gives a good chance of at least one of them arriving on the right table edge I guess

As for flamers on crisis suits, I'd agree they arn't useful unless as suicide units or with proper fire support. Adopting a flamers= awful attitide is a little closeminded - statistically a flamer, covering 6 marines, does more damage than rapid-firing them with a bs3 plasma rifle. Provided the flamers are only used in a timed attack with other units, they are incredibly useful, and also as a general 'keep away from me' sign. I'd totally agree with you if it was a case of a unit vs unit and you're thinking about trying to flame them.

I will post a slightly more balanced list in the next few days,

Thanks for the comments and advice

Well, firstly you'd have to hit 6 marines, and a smart marine player can avoid bunching his dudes up. Secondly, why would you want to use a crisis suit as a suicide unit? The majority of your firepower comes from Crisis suits - having them die is a big no-no.

Oops, wasn't clear. I don't use them as a kamikaze but I could understand a 3xTwin linked Flamer deepstrike team or something similar. True that they can be spread out, but with partial hit's elimination it's never difficult to get 4+ models. And given the proliferation of deep-strike and outflank, it makes good sense to have weapons that are very effective at close range. The flamers on the missile suits, and to a lesser extent on the plasma/flamer suits (though I use them more aggressively) are perfect to counter drop pods and the nice circle shape deep strikers make. Combined with good deployment and the opponent's avoidance of said units it can force them to arrive elsewhere. And they are a godsend against any large, objective holding unit.

Anyway, clearly flamers are understandably not to your taste, given their short range, and definately have to be used wisely, so lets agree to differ - I know a tau player who is very successful without any, and similarly I know a tau player who gives most suits at least one, to great success. Especially with the BA bandwagon everyone is jumping on.

guyrevell wrote:Oops, wasn't clear. I don't use them as a kamikaze but I could understand a 3xTwin linked Flamer deepstrike team or something similar. True that they can be spread out, but with partial hit's elimination it's never difficult to get 4+ models. And given the proliferation of deep-strike and outflank, it makes good sense to have weapons that are very effective at close range. The flamers on the missile suits, and to a lesser extent on the plasma/flamer suits (though I use them more aggressively) are perfect to counter drop pods and the nice circle shape deep strikers make. Combined with good deployment and the opponent's avoidance of said units it can force them to arrive elsewhere. And they are a godsend against any large, objective holding unit.

Anyway, clearly flamers are understandably not to your taste, given their short range, and definately have to be used wisely, so lets agree to differ - I know a tau player who is very successful without any, and similarly I know a tau player who gives most suits at least one, to great success. Especially with the BA bandwagon everyone is jumping on.

Okay, I get you. I'm guessing your metagame has a lot of deep-strike and/or drop pod armies. All the tau players in my area use Plasma rifle/ Missile pod crisis suits exclusively, and they seem to work pretty well (on me, at least!).

Yeah, most players I face have at least a couple of nasty units that make a sudden appearance, which can be a massive pain when also faced with everything else rushing down the field at me. Anyway, I shall post a revised list shortly.

Thanks to all,

Guy