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HQ:102
Shas'El w/ AFP, MP, TA, Stimulant Injectors

Fairly tough HQ that can dish out anti horde and anti-vehicle

Elites: 477
2 squads of (XV8x3 w/ plasma rifles, MP, multi-trackers
one is team leader w/ bonding knife)

Anti-MEQ/ anti-transport

XV8x2 w/ burst cannons, MP, TA

Anti-Horde/ anti-transport

Troops:480
FWx8 w/pulse rifles

On foot because they will take the pathfinder's fish. Objective takers/ anti-horde

2 squads of (FWx8 w/ pulse rifles
+devilfish w/ SMS, multi-tracker, disruption pods, TA)

Anti-horde/ Objective takers. Fish give cover to suits

Fast Attack:376
Pathfindersx8
+devilfish w/ SMS, multi-tracker, disruption pods, TA

Markerlight support/ Fish give cover to suits

Piranhax2 (one squad) w/ fusion blasters, flechette, TA

Late objective takers/ anti armour

Heavy Support:560
Broadsidex2 w/ ASS
one is team leader w/bonding knife, drone controller, 2x shield drones

Anti-Heavy Armour

2 Hammerhead w/ burst cannons railguns, flechette, multi-tracker, Target lock, disruption pods

Anti-Armour/Anti-Horde. Give cover to suits

This list is pretty good but the units tend to clump together once they are on the board and make it easy for opponents to multi-assualt.

Don't start dissing FWs, as in the last game I played a squad destroyed a seer council (shooting) + a squad of fire dragons (in assualt!)

The reason for their being no drones on the suits is that I hide them behind vehicles/ other units/ terrain and JSJ them in an out to give them cover saves, I think the drones are too expensive to pass around to all of the squads.

This list is excellent in objective games but meh in kill points, giving up 16. With this, they are pretty bad in a DOW setup, as I can't bring the guns to bear on turn one.
Speaking of which, If I get the first turn with this army I have a very good chance of eliminating 50% or more of the enemy's armour/ MC with:

4 str 10 weapons (2 are twin linked)

2 str 8 weapons

9 str 7 weapons

They are not laking, however, in anti horde with around:

75 str 5 weapons

3 large blasts

C&C welcome and needed

24 FWs, and no kroots at all. How could it be a competitive list?

Tau need bubblewrap units for keeping suits firing.

24 FWs, and no kroots at all. How could it be a competitive list?

Tau need bubblewrap units for keeping suits firing.

The suits will use the fish as a barrier,

but I do see where you are coming from. Is it a good idea to get rid of the foot FWs in favor of 10 kroot to protect the broadsides/pathfinders?

I don't think you need Kroot to make a competitive list, but they are useful and even more so in any list that has a Positional Relay in (to me that is something that a competitive list needs, its just too useful for keeping troops off of the board & getting situational reserves in).

Crisis suit-wise, you need drones. If I were most armies I would spend the first 2 turns instant-killing your suits. And the first shot would be a single railgun to your commander. Although it can be annoying to spend points on an upgrade that doesnt make its points back exactly, plus bonding for a unit of 3 models, the inclusion of even a single gun drone means you can ignore the first Lascannon that hits you. Most people use shield drones, a few players (including myself) use gun drones as 5th edition basically gives Crisis suits a free 4+ invulnerable. I find 2 gun drones attatched to a 2-3 man Elites team is just the right amount. As for weapon loadouts its a little bit 'cookie cutter' - 6 Fireknives, 2 Firestorm+. Although they are good configurations I don't tend to use them at all. For me a Missile Pod and a Plasma Rifle arn't that great together - one can barely damage most transports, and termies (and frankly, marines) don't really care about innacurate ap4. Also, the Firestorm kind of relies on weight of fire to take down infantry, and so you might consider a team like so:

Team Leader, Missile Pod, Burst Cannon, Targeting Array, Bonding Knife, HW Multi-Tracker, 2 x Gun Drone
Crisis'Ui, Missile Pod, Burst Cannon, Targeting Array
Crisis'Ui, Missile Pod, Burst Cannon, Multi-Tracker.

That would give you better situational use of the Target Array suit, and the Array on the leader makes up for the lower accuracy of the last member.

Also your suits do not take advantage of wound allocation, having to kill off a whole suit after 3 wounds (one on the Team Leader, 2 on the identical suits). This is something that is usually taken advantage of by a lot of competitive armies and therefore something a competitive list 'should' use, where possible, to even the playing field. I use a 3 man Broadside Team, with a shas'O and a total of 4 shield drones and 5 different wound groups to create a unit that is nigh unbreakable, unless the opponent wastes disproportionate force on it.

The 3 Warfish and 2 Hammerhead give you enough armour saturation to make taking a Warfish viable - taken alone, its too large a point sink for me.

Overall it seems a good list, though a bit 'template' - maybe consider writing a 1750 list as that can be a more common competitive level, and really makes you think about your choices.

This is a link to my list - no Pathfinders, Railheads, FireKnives or storms to be found, and its been remarkably effective so far (tabled a marine and a guard player, and thrashed another guard and marine player in objective games), if its of any use. Obviously everyone has their own style of play, but it might give you a few ideas configuration/unit setup wise.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/298634.page

Hope that's useful

Your comments are really helpful:

the suits-I see where you are coming frm with the type of suits to use, yet Ive had great success with them and in tend on keeping them. I will follow up on the wound allocation and will probably get drones for the suits. Any suggestions on where I should cut to make room for 60 points?

The positional relay also seems viable and I think I could use it well.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is the updated list:

HQ:
Shas'El w/ AFP, MP, targetting array, Positional Relay, Stimulant Injector bonding knife, 2x gun drones

Will attach to Crisis team Flame. Anti-Horde/ Anti-Transport.

Elites:
Crisis Teams Blaze and Burn
Team leader w/ Plasma rifle, MP, Multi-tracker, bonding knife, 2x gun drones
Shas'ui w/ Plasma rifle, MP, multi-tracker
Shas'ui w/ Plasma rifle, MP, Targetting Array

Anti-MEQ/ Anti-Transport. Uses wound allocation

Crisis Team Flame
Shas'ui w/ MP, Burst Cannon, Targetting Array
Shas'ui w/ MP, Burst Cannon, Multi-tracker

See Shas'El. Uses wound allocation

Troops:
2 squads of 8 FWs w/ pulse rifles
+Devilfish w/ SMS, multi-tracker, Disruption pod (one for each squad)

Objective takers and anti-horde

10 Kroot

Objective takers. Meatshield for broadsides. Able to outflank and disrupt enemy backfield

Fast Attack:
3 Piranha w/ Fusion blaster, flechette dischargers, Targetting Array (in one squad)

Able to disrupt formations. Flechette makes horde cry when they zoom up to a big squad of sluggas and wait for the assualt, hello 45 wounds. Objective contesters. Anti-vehicle

Heavy Support:
Broadside Team Inferno
Team leader w/ drone controller, bonding knife, 2x shield drones
shas'ui w/ Targetting array
shas'ui w/ Target lock

Anti-vehicle. Bait

2 Hammerheads w/ Burst cannons, Railguns, multi-tracker, Diruption pod, flechette dischargers

Anti-vehicle/Anti-Horde. Good mobility

Comes out to 1999 points

I've gotten rid of the pathfinders and one squad of FWs for a squad of kroot and an extra piranha and broadside

The reasoning for this is that the kroot are able to be called in via positional relay wherever they are needed (whether that be outflanking or from my board edge). In addition to that they are able to becaome a meatshield for my heavy hitting broadsides. Also, they can hold my back objective while my other troops are zooming across the field taking the enemy's objectives.

The extra piranha will ensure a more successful roadblocking and will be more of a nuisance to enemy formations. In addition, more of a chance to blow up some stuff!

The extra broadside would bring an extra twin linked railgun into the fight, always good.

The suits will still use the Warfish and the Hammerheads as mobile cover, yet are more durable from fire. Now all of my suits benefit from wound allocation and it takes 5 wounds before a suit is able to be killed.

The game plan would be to deploy the hammerheads with squads Flame and Blaze in one side of my deployment while the broadsides would be towards the middle of the field, acting as my bait (I play my tau in a variation of the Kauyon) with the FWs, Kroot, Crisis squad Burn, and Piranhas in reserve.

I would want the first turn, where I would pop the most important/ fast targets with my 5 railguns on turn one. The enemy would then have to make a choice, go for the broadsides or the hammerheads (both of equal threat), either way he/she would commit a good amount of units to that target and that is when I would spring the trap. The suits/ piranhas (matters what is attacking) would attack via deep strike or using their mobility to elimate those units in comination with the units already on the board. Hopefully my railguns would have already reduced his/her mobility so I can move my mobile firebase (suits+fish+hammerhead) evade the enemy while blowing them to smitherens. If the broadsides are threatened I would use the positional relay to bring the kroot on and protect them.

C&C welcome as always

Only a speedy reply - I'd chop the Flachettes off the hammerheads and downgrade a 'fish (the one in reserve with fws already in) down to a basic dpods fish, I make that 55 which is a start. Also it depends who the commander joins - could have a 3 man team, joined by the commander (with a bonding knife) + drones, like so:

Missile Pod, Plasma, Multi
Missile Pod, Plasma, Array

Missile Pod, Twinlinked weapon + drone controller
or another Fireknife, 2 of the same models isnt too bad in the grand scheme of things at all.

Fair enough sticking with the 'Knives and 'storms, they are undeniably good. Glad to hear you found a few things helpful

Only a speedy reply - I'd chop the Flachettes off the hammerheads and downgrade a 'fish (the one in reserve with fws already in) down to a basic dpods fish, I make that 55 which is a start. Also it depends who the commander joins - could have a 3 man team, joined by the commander (with a bonding knife) + drones, like so:

Missile Pod, Plasma, Multi
Missile Pod, Plasma, Array

Missile Pod, Twinlinked weapon + drone controller
or another Fireknife, 2 of the same models isnt too bad in the grand scheme of things at all.

Fair enough sticking with the 'Knives and 'storms, they are undeniably good. Glad to hear you found a few things helpful

I thought about doing a vaiation of that idea yet didn't like the size of the units footprint.

3 suits + 2 drones is hard enough to look unimportant. 3 suits + 2 drones + commander means that those guys are a big target now.
In 2500 point game I would do something of that variation by making the firestorms the commanders retinue, adding a shield'O to the broadsides, and adding another fireknife squad.

Also I don't like drones of the devilfish as they just give up free KPs, which I alreadly have enough of (14 KP)

And it is true that your advice has been really helpful. It may to be good to know that this is a 1750 list + a hammerhead and a piranha. I found that if I looked at it the way you said I found out what I truly needed.

Yeah, the big 4-5 suit unit can be nice but it is a bit of a 'battlecannon me please'. If you can find the points, an Array on the Team Leader can help a lot in the last few turns when your Pathfinders have been killed. And the Gun Drone kill point thing is a disaster for Tau, so keeping the sms could well be a good idea. I just dont like paying out for all the upgrades on a 'fish to only get 7 shots - and it seems just unfair to make tau players pay a hundred points for their basic, single kill-point transport. One thing I forgot to add - a lot of people use a mix of a gun and a shield drone, just to get it a little cheaper. Remember to take normal bolter-ey wounds on the suits first, to keep the drones absorbing the lascannons, until the suits are down to their last wound. Its hilariously frustrating to stop people from killing the drones off then firing high-power weapons at them (my friends Guard army have this issue a lot).

Yeah, the big 4-5 suit unit can be nice but it is a bit of a 'battlecannon me please'. If you can find the points, an Array on the Team Leader can help a lot in the last few turns when your Pathfinders have been killed. And the Gun Drone kill point thing is a disaster for Tau, so keeping the sms could well be a good idea. I just dont like paying out for all the upgrades on a 'fish to only get 7 shots - and it seems just unfair to make tau players pay a hundred points for their basic, single kill-point transport. One thing I forgot to add - a lot of people use a mix of a gun and a shield drone, just to get it a little cheaper. Remember to take normal bolter-ey wounds on the suits first, to keep the drones absorbing the lascannons, until the suits are down to their last wound. Its hilariously frustrating to stop people from killing the drones off then firing high-power weapons at them (my friends Guard army have this issue a lot).

Sounds good on the gun drone, shield drone thing. I was just conserving points but I can get rid of a piranha and get this:

HQ:
Shas'El w/ AFP, MP, targetting array, Positional Relay, Stimulant Injector bonding knife, gun drone, shield drone

Elites:
Crisis Teams Blaze and Burn
Team leader w/ Plasma rifle, MP, Targetting array, HW-multi-tracker, bonding knife, gun drone, shield drone
Shas'ui w/ Plasma rifle, MP, multi-tracker
Shas'ui w/ Plasma rifle, MP, Targetting Array

Crisis Team Flame
Shas'ui w/ MP, Burst Cannon, Targetting Array
Shas'ui w/ MP, Burst Cannon, Multi-tracker

Troops:
2 squads of 8 FWs w/ pulse rifles
+Devilfish w/ SMS, multi-tracker, Disruption pod (one for each squad)

10 Kroot w/ 5 Kroot hounds

Fast Attack:
2 Piranha w/ Fusion blaster, flechette dischargers, Targetting Array (in one squad)

Heavy Support:
Broadside Team Inferno
Team leader w/ Targetting Array, bonding knife, 2x shield drones
shas'ui w/ Targetting array
shas'ui w/ Target lock

2 Hammerheads w/ Burst cannons, Railguns, multi-tracker, Diruption pod, flechette dischargers

Added the shield drone and targetting arrays on suits. Had 30 points left over so I spent it on 5 Kroot Hounds, which would make the kroot more useful if I chose to ouflank them (any other suggestions on how to use the points?

For a bit of extra anti-deep strike you could add a target lock to the Broadside team leader (hard-wired) and then give the 3rd one Targeting Array and Plasma, meaning they are still all different and if anything arrives too close you can move and Plasma, or on that one rapid fire the plasma (2 twin linked wound on a 2+ shots, or one from the railgun, vs most infantry they dont have the wounds to worry about being instant killed. Apart from that, looking good

For a bit of extra anti-deep strike you could add a target lock to the Broadside team leader (hard-wired) and then give the 3rd one Targeting Array and Plasma, meaning they are still all different and if anything arrives too close you can move and Plasma, or on that one rapid fire the plasma (2 twin linked wound on a 2+ shots, or one from the railgun, vs most infantry they dont have the wounds to worry about being instant killed. Apart from that, looking good

Would use plasma but I don't have the bitz for it! In the mean time I will keep faith in the 4+ reroll