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Hey guys,

So I've been prompted to write this by my reaction to an acquaintance being confirmed as a Methodist (doing some big speech, all that jazz), I started thinking...

My reaction to it was hostility, he suffers from social-anxiety and even said in his speech that "I craved acceptance": Acceptance that the Christians at the University gave him when they pounced on him and (in my opinion) exploited his condition to embrace another into the flock... I feel mad at them for being so blatantly opportunistic and I also feel mad at him for being a weak atheist.

But then I have to step back and ask myself: "Why am I angry at someone who's now happy? Why is religion so intolerable to me?" And it really is, I would quite readily say I hate Christianity, consider it a backlash against an upbringing as a Christian and attendance of at an Anglican school or simply my own wisening up, I can't abide by Christians, my first thought when I find out somebody is a believer is usually a massive loss of respect for them.

Enough about me, however... What I wanted to ask is where other Atheists think such disdain emanates from? I know plenty of fellow godless heathens who absolutely detest religion to its very core are quick to leap on anyone who is a believer and challenge them in debate.. Then again, I also know more tolerant individuals. But does anyone here feel empathy with me? A disgust that we can't deny but does seem a tad illogical?

Does it really boil down to simple reason why I dislike people who don't share my ideology? That I believe my way of thinking is best? Perhaps it does: Unlike a few people in this world, I don't consider religion a "sacred" topic that can't be desecrated because someone "believes" in it.

But then you have to ask yourself: Who are you to try take away something that makes someone happy?

The only justification I have is when they damage others... Christianity is still responsible for a lot of evil in this world: My latest fight was over some pretty extreme homophobia expressed by said aquaintance and his cult-members: After all, if you read the Old Testament literally, it's quite a horrifying experience.

So yeah, thoughts?

I'm not an athetist and I dislike religion too.

EDIT: Your angry because he displayed weakness and copped out. It's understandable. Also my invisible friend (God) is awesome.

EDIT EDIT: I love how when you describe god as an invisible friend you seem crazy.

I, like many people, lost most if not all my faith when I was in college. I'm not sure I ever felt as much animosity towards religion as you describe, but in general the UK seems to produce some extremely rabid atheists. I'm guessing the more relaxed blending of church and state doesnt' help there...

Anyway, I know part of me reacted poorly to what I saw as illogical. Part of me resented seeing friends become born again and change. Part of me resented how happy they seemed. part of it was simply an attempt to feel superior.

I grew out of it, not because I think it's natural, but because I made peace with how I want to be religious.




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Shaman wrote:I'm not an athetist and I dislike religion too.

I sometimes think that only those that are steeped in a tradition can really appreciate it's flaws. Nobody hates frat boys more than me and my friends from my college fraternity, and my family for generations have been some of the most cynical Catholics you could find.

>Who are you to try to take away something that makes someone happy?

Who am I to not? All I can do is treat people how I would want to be treated in their position. If I believed something false, I would want to be disabused of that notion. I'm fairly easy going and I usually don't care about what other people have faith in if they don't bring it up, but if they do in an attempt to convert me then I'll do my best to show them why I think they're incorrect.

I think the problem for the true atheist is that he's ultimately guilty of the same thing the truly religious person is -- claiming to know with absolute certainty the true nature of the universe. Ultimately, they're both believers. To me, that's the source of the illogic.

Regarding dislike/strong feelings regarding the other side, it's probably just a function of us all being separate beings, each experiencing the world from our own viewpoint and no one else's. When someone else proposes a framework or worldview that runs particularly counter to ours, a certain amount of conflict is probably inevitable because each of us "knows" how the world works.

I don't dislike religion, I dislike religionists.

Tit for tat?

How many times have you been approached by Christians that radiate an aire of complete superiority over the "unfaithful filth" or been annoyed by being woken up on a sunday morning by a knock at the door by someone who wants to "tell you about Jesus"?

I find many behaviors of devout Christians annoying. They become sort of a stereotype and you react to ANYTHING Christian by having these images pop into your head.

Of course it could simply be your own arrogance and desire for conflict. How easy is it to make fun of someone who beleives in an old bearded man up in the sky that made everything with magic, loves everyone and hears everyone in the world's prayers? Pretty easy when a horse with a horn growing out of its forehead (unicorn) is a little less fantastical and easier to beleive. Maybe Christian also means "opportunity" to you.

Tolerance is something everyone needs, and needs to utilise. Humans are naturally egotistical. Everyone who doesnt beleive in what you believe is pretty much delusional out of the gate. Its coping with the fact that you 'might' be wrong or that you need to let people live their own lives is what people have trouble with.

Christians need to heed this advice as well. Many of them can be annoyed by your lack of faith...and wind up instantly feeling hostile to you. After all, who the gak are you to question their faith? ....to tell them that they are wrong? ....how dare you!

Personally, I think outside of church, the world would be a more pleasant place if people would avoid this subject. Nobody "KNOWS", Christians may 'think' they "know", but they dont. Neither do athiests. The only people who "know" what happens are dead people.

....god its hard to get info from them.

Atheism is a doctrine of denial of the unprovable. It's based in intolerance just the same as any of the monotheistic religions base themselves on the intolerance of other religions. Where those religions typically preach tolerance of mistakes or the flaws in other humans however atheism has no actual teachings beyond it's basic statement. To take atheism and profess it strongly is to be intolerant of religion by definition. It's not so much that denial of faith is intrinsically something hostile, however people that are hostile to religions are quite often professed and loud atheists.

I think you should be asking why you found the situation intolerable, not why other athiests do the same.

.

Personally, I have no interest in religion. I'm not atheist, I believe that it could possible that an afterlife exists, but I don't attend masses etc. I don't mind religion, as I see it, it makes people happy, it gives them a sense of being complete, however, once it all starts turning sour is when I get sick of it.

By turning sour, I'm referring to people spouting speeches of hate against other religions or social groups. Once religion starts preaching hate, a stereotype soon develops against that religion

It's this stereotype that causes people to find religion intolerable. Also, from an atheist's point of view, religious people could be seen as deluded, following blind hope.

Deadshane1 wrote:I think, in some cases, being "intolerant" of religion can be justifiable.

Maybe, but it's very case specific. Being intolerant of the concept of religion is foolish, it's like being intolerant of a color. Your intolerance doesn't do anything to change anything and now you see it wherever you go. Intolerance of aspects of religion, or of the actions of certain religious sects is totally understandable and is actually a good idea regardless of your professed faith. I wouldn't want people to be particularly tolerant of sharia law for instance. However being intolerant of religion as an idea or faith as a concept is simply a poor idea. Where do you stop at that point, the 'free market' and the 'american ideal' are religious concepts by popular belief and any scientific or philosophical backing to them are tenuous at best. People have 'faith' in things beyond codified book based religions.


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Deadshane1 wrote:.

You edited this to a period..?

ShumaGorath wrote:Atheism is a doctrine of denial of the unprovable. It's based in intolerance just the same as any of the monotheistic religions base themselves on the intolerance of other religions. Where those religions typically preach tolerance of mistakes or the flaws in other humans however atheism has no actual teachings beyond it's basic statement. To take atheism and profess it strongly is to be intolerant of religion by definition. It's not so much that denial of faith is intrinsically something hostile, however people that are hostile to religions are quite often professed and loud atheists.

This entire post seems to make athiests out to be something that they really arent. Not beleiving in a diety is simply the opposite of beleiving in one...no more, no less. I disagree that Atheism is based in intolerance. Can't you just "not beleive and not care"?

Most of the time when an athiest takes a strong stance on their belief its due to being confronted by religion in a way he prefers not to be exposed to it. Like being woken up on a Sunday when he prefers to sleep in by the person "just wanting to tell you about Jesus". After all, when was the last time you had an Athiest knock on your door at 9am to tell you that "there is no god"?

Modquisition on:
This flame has been reported.
You can't find a better forum for why you hate religion than a board about toy soldiers? Really?
I am closing this as its surely going to start a flamewar. you are free to PM other mods if you have an issue with that.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:I think, in some cases, being "intolerant" of religion can be justifiable.

Maybe, but it's very case specific. Being intolerant of the concept of religion is foolish, it's like being intolerant of a color. Your intolerance doesn't do anything to change anything and now you see it wherever you go. Intolerance of aspects of religion, or of the actions of certain religious sects is totally understandable and is actually a good idea regardless of your professed faith. I wouldn't want people to be particularly tolerant of sharia law for instance. However being intolerant of religion as an idea or faith as a concept is simply a poor idea. Where do you stop at that point, the 'free market' and the 'american ideal' are religious concepts by popular belief and any scientific or philosophical backing to them are tenuous at best. People have 'faith' in things beyond codified book based religions.

I guess what angers me most (and I feel justified in it) is when I see them forcing their beliefs on others... It's ironic how the BNP will be chased away and spat on when they try to hand children leaflets (I'm not saying I sympathise with the BNP, hear me out) and yet the church is allowed to "educate" them from a young age in much the same way...