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Starting up an ork speed army with 4 trukks and 3 battlewagons. I am a long-time player but an ork newbie so I thought I would pose these to the Dakka-ites for some input.

20-boy mobz coming out of wagons, the nob will be a powerclaw, no questions but the issue I am toying with are the 12 boyz coming out of a trukk.

Unshot at, 12 orks will generally have enough survive to have the nob live and get to have powerclaw attacks go off but if it is shot up at all,
you could watch that partial squad manage nothing. So I was thinking of going to Uge choppas for trukk boy nobz. I think they are the cooler looking, still provide a reasonable AT attack (S6/7), cost less and most important go off at I4 on the charge. The downside of course is they are not a power weapon so you have to deal with MEC armor saves.

Seems that trukk boys are one-shot and done units that never deal with mob rules so just thinking of saving @ 80 points on the army. Thinking of using the savings to outfit either nob squad or some other hard hitting unit.

I would welcome ork players' experience on trukk boy units and input on the idea of foregoing the powerclaws for trukkboyz.

It is my experience every nob leading boyz NEEDS a power klaw. Strength 7 isn't going to do anything to a landraider. Sure it'll rip apart a lot of other stuff, but the concept of the pk, is guaranteed death on hit, with almost automatic penning power, thats why it is so costly. with a BC you'd be lucky to even pen a venerable dread. Also it sounds more like you are trying to combine speed freaks with green tide, with the sheer number of boyz, I would throw in a nob unit with 3-4 pk 4-5 BC and a painboy, just to really get the point across for any heavy hard to kill units. Or even better yet, throw them on a bike. Nobz on bikes with PK's rock, constant 4+ cover save, 12 inch move 6 inch assault with strength 9. Also, if you are using lots of trukks and BWGNS make sure you snag a mek with KFF for 4+ cover save on them so you dont get toasted, remember a trukk can be killed with a pistol, 6 on glance = 5 because of open topped.

Slugga boyz without the PK Nob will do little damage. You will find that the 4 PK attacks on the charge will do most of the heavy lifting the otherwise unimpressive trukk boy squad will do. The Uge Choppa, since it is not a power weapon, does little in CC against decently armored enemies (though does alright against vehicle rear armor). In reality, it is the boyz that are a delivery and wound absorption system for the power klaw, not the other way around.

Bear in mind, that pairing up trukk boyz, so that you have 24 working together, works a LOT better than one 12 man unit operating solo, plus two PKs should mean you at least tie combat against a good CC unit.

Do you normally play MEQ's? If so then a power klaw in a small mob like that is necessary. Specially with a small squad size of 12. But if you are facing a lot of tanks and are worried about penetration. Give stikkbomb chuckas to your trukks. The bombs along with the 3-4 attacks from the nob should be plenty to take out the tank. I say BC over PK, but you do need PKs in a mob.

I will have to echo what has allready been said. A single trukk boy squad with a PK has a good chance of bouncing off of an MEQ. And Orks need as much AT that they can get, the only thing you save by going with a Big Choppa is 20 points and orks can afford the 20 points extra for a PK.

PK's are extremely important in ork lists more so than powerfists even in MEQ lists.

GG

bellumdominus wrote:Do you normally play MEQ's? If so then a power klaw in a small mob like that is necessary. Specially with a small squad size of 12. But if you are facing a lot of tanks and are worried about penetration. Give stikkbomb chuckas to your trukks. The bombs along with the 3-4 attacks from the nob should be plenty to take out the tank. I say BC over PK, but you do need PKs in a mob.

Im not understanding what you are saying here.

The stikkbomms let you attack in regular I order. So they would do nothing to tanks.

Stikkbomb Chukka is useless. It only lets you strike at Initiative order... which means you still go last. The last point in favor of the PK is that ork Initiative sucks, so going last is not really a penalty in most cases. You just need those boyz to try to get a few bonus wounds while the PK Nob rips faces off.

Skarboy wrote:Stikkbomb Chukka is useless. It only lets you strike at Initiative order... which means you still go last. The last point in favor of the PK is that ork Initiative sucks, so going last is not really a penalty in most cases. You just need those boyz to try to get a few bonus wounds while the PK Nob rips faces off.

Agreed 100%!

About the ONLY use i could see to stikkbomm chuckas is on a Nob wagon if your going against a MEQ army....

In most cases the following metric applies.

Is it an ork?

if yes, can it have a powerklaw?

if yes, does it have a powerklaw?

if yes, waaaagh!

if no, give it a powerklaw, waaaagh!

(the only exceptions are big meks and in a nobz mob where you already have 1 or 2 powerklaws)

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:In most cases the following metric applies.

Is it an ork?

if yes, can it have a powerklaw?

if yes, does it have a powerklaw?

if yes, waaaagh!

if no, give it a powerklaw, waaaagh!

(the only exceptions are big meks and in a nobz mob where you already have 3 or 4 powerklaws)

Fixed that for you I mean why run a nobz mob with only 1-2 PK? Might as well just run two more units of boys for 2 pks. if you want nobz you want several pk's, to rip even more faces off, just dont go too crazy PK happy.

I have found that 2 PKs work very well for me at the 1500 level...they always run around w my warboss in a wagon...providing they charge those klaws level 8 str8 attacks and 6 str 10 (yes i use da power squig!) ....so thats 14 super high strength power attacks...quite enough and usually a bit overkill sometimes!

Shake Zoola wrote:I have found that 2 PKs work very well for me at the 1500 level...they always run around w my warboss in a wagon...providing they charge those klaws level 8 str8 attacks and 6 str 10 (yes i use da power squig!) ....so thats 14 super high strength power attacks...quite enough and usually a bit overkill sometimes!

And against terminators? Those 18 attacks aren't going to cut it, figuring half will hit, all but one will wound then they'll save three according to the odds you will successfully kill 5 of them, too bad they are played in groups larger then 5 up to 10, if any survived the first round of CC, they wont survive the second. for another 50 points you add 8 more strength 9 attacks not 8, dont forget FC, so now you are talking 12 hits, 1-2 fail to wounds, with maybe 3-4 saves you are killing 7 or 8 on average. Not to mentio na land raider moving 6+ inches you will get on average 9 chances to try and pen, needing either 4 6's or 5 5's then praying that should they make it, odd's being 4 pens tops, then you need to roll a 5 or 6 to destroy.. why not double your chances?

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:

Shake Zoola wrote:I have found that 2 PKs work very well for me at the 1500 level...they always run around w my warboss in a wagon...providing they charge those klaws level 8 str8 attacks and 6 str 10 (yes i use da power squig!) ....so thats 14 super high strength power attacks...quite enough and usually a bit overkill sometimes!

And against terminators? Those 18 attacks aren't going to cut it, figuring half will hit, all but one will wound then they'll save three according to the odds you will successfully kill 5 of them, too bad they are played in groups larger then 5 up to 10, if any survived the first round of CC, they wont survive the second. for another 50 points you add 8 more strength 9 attacks not 8, dont forget FC, so now you are talking 12 hits, 1-2 fail to wounds, with maybe 3-4 saves you are killing 7 or 8 on average. Not to mentio na land raider moving 6+ inches you will get on average 9 chances to try and pen, needing either 4 6's or 5 5's then praying that should they make it, odd's being 4 pens tops, then you need to roll a 5 or 6 to destroy.. why not double your chances?

I see your point...Id have to make a decent cut to my squads to squeeze out another 50 pts...its worth a shot at a higher points level though...the one SM guy I play doesnt usually use more than 8 termies which are easy enough to handle especially if I run them over and or shoot them...even if they are in a land raider my BW can usually run it over...

Like I said i could probably work it into a larger points limit but at 1500 the 2 plus 1 warboss seems to cut it for me!

Yea at 1500 makes relative sense, i usually play 2500 or more Should have seen my 6k game

Something Ive been experimenting with and seems to work rather well is thus

Ill stick a cheap-o warboss with a big choppa ( results vary on armor types to take) and stick him with a nob mob. Then use the nobs to have the actual PKs. That way on the charge youve got a STR8 boss going at I5 cranking out attacks. Its great against dreds and smaller tanks. That way if you need more or somehow mess up with the boss, youve got those nobs as a back up. I think I build mine around 95pts, pretty cheap for what he does.

As far as trukk boyz go. When I play when it matters, my list is trukks, BW and BigMek somewhere in there for the KFF save on the vehicles. (I also run a bunch of rokkit buggies but thats neither here nor there) I can tell you from messing up enough to know this, NEVER take a boyz mob with out a PK wielding nob. Dont waste points giving him evy armor, thatll save you a small amount of points overall.

Youve got to look at them like this. Trukk boyz, are either there to A. tie up something important so it doesnt mess up your plan. Or B. fast strike in and cripple something important. They hit pretty damn hard for only 11 boyz and 1 pk nob, and the unit is only around 150pts. Trust me you play a game or 2 without that pk and youll regret it very fast.

Nice plan with the WB, never thought of that...

Yeah Ill have to give that a go as well...str 8 at I5 follwed by str 9 at I 1...sounds like a plan...your other advice is spot on...if that nob is needing to actually use that 4+ armor save hes already dead...and we need the PKs to pick up wounds for resolution!

I've run that Warboss w/ Big choppa. He's alright, can still instant kill/deny FNP, rips at rear armor, but against Marines does very little, and even less when compared to a PK that hits on 3+. But, if you have several PK nobs already, might be a way to run a cheap boss, I suppose.

Big choppas are surprisingly cheap and useful but the only choice with a trukk mob is a klaw.

Skarboy wrote:I've run that Warboss w/ Big choppa. He's alright, can still instant kill/deny FNP, rips at rear armor, but against Marines does very little, and even less when compared to a PK that hits on 3+. But, if you have several PK nobs already, might be a way to run a cheap boss, I suppose.

Yea the bigchoppa IMO gets hoed for not having PW capabilities. Sure itd cost alot more but still. Everyone still gets saves, but again thats why you have the PK nobs to back him up. Mainly hes for popping transports and av12 easily. Ive smoked a few dreds with ease with that build up. Its nice to actually go first against other armies, where when using a PK you wont. And sure its not super effective against SM but still, they can fail their save, and thats 1 or 2 less SM that gets to kill boyz or nobs before hand.

Really give it a try, works pretty nice not to mention comparing points costs, youll save about 50 pts ish from a normal boss. Great way to chave points if you need too


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yournamehere wrote:Big choppas are surprisingly cheap and useful but the only choice with a trukk mob is a klaw.

Definitely agree with this. Anything else is just not a smart move

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:

Shake Zoola wrote:I have found that 2 PKs work very well for me at the 1500 level...they always run around w my warboss in a wagon...providing they charge those klaws level 8 str8 attacks and 6 str 10 (yes i use da power squig!) ....so thats 14 super high strength power attacks...quite enough and usually a bit overkill sometimes!

And against terminators? Those 18 attacks aren't going to cut it, figuring half will hit, all but one will wound then they'll save three according to the odds you will successfully kill 5 of them, too bad they are played in groups larger then 5 up to 10, if any survived the first round of CC, they wont survive the second. for another 50 points you add 8 more strength 9 attacks not 8, dont forget FC, so now you are talking 12 hits, 1-2 fail to wounds, with maybe 3-4 saves you are killing 7 or 8 on average. Not to mentio na land raider moving 6+ inches you will get on average 9 chances to try and pen, needing either 4 6's or 5 5's then praying that should they make it, odd's being 4 pens tops, then you need to roll a 5 or 6 to destroy.. why not double your chances?

1-2 klaws works just fine for me. The squad I usually run is

6 nobz, all with cybork
1 is a painboy
1 has a klaw
1 has a klaw and bp
1 has a waaagh banner
1 has a big choppa
1 is normal

The only squads they've ever lost cc to are a unit of obbies (entirely due to piss poor rolling on my part) and the swarmlord (who owns pretty much everything in 40k). They've taken on honour guard, termies, death company, berserkers, plague marines, bloodcrushers, etc and come out on top. 2 pks works just fine.

Nobz are never going to win a fight against assault termies. Klaws bounce off the invulnerable and those t-hammers insta-kill nobz. Adding more klaws to make them better against ass-termies is just a bad idea because they7ll still be bad just more expensive. Ass-termies are killed with weight of attacks or preferrably weight of fire for an ork force. Shoota mobz mess them up.

I've ran the BC warboss before, and he has his moments, but I switched back to the PK simply because a Str 10 PK is too nice not to have. Sure there is little difference between str 8/9 klaws and str 10 klaws for the most part, but when dealing with land raiders, monoliths, and multi-wound T5 models, it makes all the difference in the world.

It's strange that the Swarmlord gives you so much trouble, I regularly annihilate that unit with fairly low losses. Maybe it's because I have 12 WS 5 Str 9 and 7 WS 6 Str 10 PK attacks, 12 Str 7 BC attacks, 14 Str 5 attacks, and 4 poisoned attacks on the charge, and I make sure to get all the PKs in base contact with the lash whip guards, making those whips useless.

Shake Zoola wrote:

Im not understanding what you are saying here.

The stikkbomms let you attack in regular I order. So they would do nothing to tanks.

A stikkbomb Chukka gives the unit Stikk Bombs for the assault. Stikk bombs are frag grenades in all respects. Frag grenades do S4+1d6 vs vehicles in CC. So stikk bomb Chukka DOES do something to vehicles.

Of course Assaulting Orks are S4 and standard Vehicle pentration rolls are +1d6, and Orks have several attacks(vs the 1 for using grnades vs vehicles) so you are better off just making standard attack vs the vehicle, so long as it has a rear AV10, and the PK nob auto glances and Penetrates most of the time.

I just wanted to point out that the stikkbombs do do something vs tanks, but they are the far inferior option

What is that unit? Ghazkull and 10 nobz with 3 klawz, 3 Big Choppas a Dok and 3 boyz one of whom has some kind of weapon. Assuming cybork that's about 600pts in one unit! 375 for the squad and 200+ for ghazzy. And probably another 100+ for the wagon they ride in. Yes, I'm not surprised you can kill the swarmlord with that unit but considering he and his guard will kill about half that unit before he swarmy dies for about half the pts I don't think the nid player is too upset.

My problem with the swarmlord is that he's an incredibly tough unit weilded by the best player I personally know that can kill just about anything in 40k and also buffs up the rest of the nid army massively. I could kill him but that would require comitting so many points to his destruction that the rest of the nid army just runs roughshod over me. Usually I just ignore the big slow git or feed him something worthless to keep his attention occupied whilst I get on with killing the fast killy nid units.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Shake Zoola wrote:

Im not understanding what you are saying here.

The stikkbomms let you attack in regular I order. So they would do nothing to tanks.

A stikkbomb Chukka gives the unit Stikk Bombs for the assault. Stikk bombs are frag grenades in all respects. Frag grenades do S4+1d6 vs vehicles in CC. So stikk bomb Chukka DOES do something to vehicles.

Of course Assaulting Orks are S4 and standard Vehicle pentration rolls are +1d6, and Orks have several attacks(vs the 1 for using grnades vs vehicles) so you are better off just making standard attack vs the vehicle, so long as it has a rear AV10, and the PK nob auto glances and Penetrates most of the time.

I just wanted to point out that the stikkbombs do do something vs tanks, but they are the far inferior option

Heh....I guess youre right! I never thought about it that way!

But I am in total agreement with it being a truly inferior option...and even with what you pointed out still not worth the points it costs...

My nob squads are always a couple of Klaws and the rest have Big choppas. all nobs have Combi-skorchas.

the big choppas provide I4 Str7 attacks on the charge for killing infantry with the bonus of being able to damage many vehicles and MCs alongside the 2-3 klaws.

the Skorchas are for putting wounds on a large group of Tyranids or other infantry without worrying about the Nobs BS2.

i also do 'evy armor and a Painboy in the squad for the FNP and 4+ save.


Waaagh banners are also very nice as it means you will hit most enemies on a 3+ and will never need worse then a 4+.

Bosspoles a nessacery because Nobs will, unless you shell out for 10, only have their base Ld of 7 between themselves and running away. the bosspole helps make this less likely and the wounds is no big deal as you have a 4+ armour and a FNP save to keep you from getting hurt.

I said stikkbomb chuckas if you have a squad of boys that normally assault a vehicle. Give a PK to the nob, and a stikk bomb chucka to the rest of the boys have a good chance to glance or penetrate.

I do not like my boyz in trukks they die way to fast. Its strange how they live longer just walking across the board.

Grey Templar wrote:My nob squads are always a couple of Klaws and the rest have Big choppas. all nobs have Combi-skorchas.

the big choppas provide I4 Str7 attacks on the charge for killing infantry with the bonus of being able to damage many vehicles and MCs alongside the 2-3 klaws.

the Skorchas are for putting wounds on a large group of Tyranids or other infantry without worrying about the Nobs BS2.

i also do 'evy armor and a Painboy in the squad for the FNP and 4+ save.


Waaagh banners are also very nice as it means you will hit most enemies on a 3+ and will never need worse then a 4+.

Bosspoles a nessacery because Nobs will, unless you shell out for 10, only have their base Ld of 7 between themselves and running away. the bosspole helps make this less likely and the wounds is no big deal as you have a 4+ armour and a FNP save to keep you from getting hurt.

I used to do that with my nobs, but I switched tactics. I personally give them all cyborks instead of the evy armor. They ALWAYS get a save (unless its somethat ignores inv. saves obviously) and really a 5+ isnt much worse then 4+, specially when you get a FNP most the time. The reason I stopped getting the eavy armor is that alot of times the armor is just ignored. Sure you get the FNP most the time, but still that can be ignored easy enough. I find having a 5+ and then a FNP to fall back on, saves more effectively more times then hoping the eavy armor works.

but if you get your FNP you will likely get your armour as well. i think its worth the extra pts unless you just have to have something else.