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In a standard game of 40k, why only 6 turns? It seems pretty stupid to me and my friends, who just play until an entire army is eliminated, but seriously, why the 6 turn thing?

Actually standard games are now only 5 turns, with the possibility of going to turn 6 or even 7.

Well why is there a limit in the first place?

GalacticDefender wrote:Well why is there a limit in the first place?

To make the standard missions more manageable, especially at higher point values.
And to make objective holding missions possible.
And to add a bit of randomness with the rolled for additional turns.
And... etc.

Feel free to agree with your opponent to play without the restriction if you'd like.

Because some people like to play objective based games.

Yeah, I guess for objective based games it makes sense.

Because they have to pile up some words to make the rule book thicker

I can think of a few reasons:

Not all scenarios are "fight until the last man".

Not everyone has the several hours it may take to reach said result.

By having a turn limit, you will play more games with more people, and as GW is probably concerned, spend more money to get more models to play the "increased" number of games with. It is in GW's best interest that players spend more money on models.

Personally, I'd like a game of Apoc to last 6 turns as opposed to only 3, but that's just me.

Because it is not the point of every mission to kill your opponent completely. 2/3 of the missions are based on controlling objectives. Your idea would remove 2/3 of the missions from the game. And really change up the 3rd mission.

The new Turn system also adds randomness, so that players with a lot of movement like Eldar cant storm in during the last turn to claim objectives. They are suddenly aware that there is possibly another 2 turns or no more at all

This also encourages players to make the most out of their turns, i.e. the players aren't being overley cautious and dragging the game out by only focusing on a few units at a time. When this happens it's too easy to lose interest in the game and GW then loses potential sales.

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
By having a turn limit, you will play more games with more people, and as GW is probably concerned, spend more money to get more models to play the "increased" number of games with. It is in GW's best interest that players spend more money on models.

Internet stupidity of the week.

Disliking GW is fine, and if you really have to declare it whatever, but atleast base it on something.

Saying having a turn limit is just GW trying to make more money when almost loads of wargames have a turn limit (for the reasons others have said) is, I am sorry, a big red flag for pointless bashing.

And in case you're wondering, I'm not a GW fanboy at all, I play more WM games at the mo than 40k, but for god sakes dislike them for something they deserve to be disliked for.

Vimesey wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
By having a turn limit, you will play more games with more people, and as GW is probably concerned, spend more money to get more models to play the "increased" number of games with. It is in GW's best interest that players spend more money on models.

Internet stupidity of the week.

Disliking GW is fine, and if you really have to declare it whatever, but atleast base it on something.

Saying having a turn limit is just GW trying to make more money when almost loads of wargames have a turn limit (for the reasons others have said) is, I am sorry, a big red flag for pointless bashing.

And in case you're wondering, I'm not a GW fanboy at all, I play more WM games at the mo than 40k, but for god sakes dislike them for something they deserve to be disliked for.

Alas, certain nuances of communication are lost in this particular format. I was not expressing my personal feelings about GW. Simply, from a business standpoint it is feasible that a company (be it GW, WotC, whatever) would want their customers spending a certain amount of time not only using their products but also buying them. It is unfortunate that the meaning of my statement was interpreted in the way you have.

This ain't ever gonna happen, but what if you are both down to one model each?

Could end up with a chase around the table, ended only by the last trump.

If playing in a store it would be a fairer system to have limited turns? Other people waiting to play and all that.

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
Personally, I'd like a game of Apoc to last 6 turns as opposed to only 3, but that's just me.

off topic but did I miss something? i thought Apoc was 6-7 turns max like "normal" games

dbsamurai wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
Personally, I'd like a game of Apoc to last 6 turns as opposed to only 3, but that's just me.

off topic but did I miss something? i thought Apoc was 6-7 turns max like "normal" games

They are, I just haven't had any recently last that long. Time's been called at turn 3 or so because people don't seem to want to devote an entire weekend for Apoc.

GalacticDefender wrote:In a standard game of 40k, why only 6 turns? It seems pretty stupid to me and my friends, who just play until an entire army is eliminated, but seriously, why the 6 turn thing?

depends on the type of game you want to play, do you want to test out a new army list and only want to play a quick game? or are you and your buddies sitting around for 3 days and have nothing to do, i've played both ways, in tournaments, you cant "Go until an army is eliminated" every round because there needs to be a conclusion to the tournament in a reasonable time frame, many tournaments will have time limits that range from 1-3 hours or when the random turn limit ends the game.

So yea, the rules set up the random turn limit and I think the majority of players prefer that over drawn out matches.

Simply put... it makes an already long, convoluted war game have a time limit. This makes for the game to have more strategy and less of the "pokemon" syndrome as I like to call it ala: I have more powerful stuff than you so I'll win.

Also, put it this way, if you do it until your whole opponents army is gone, a person could make the game last a stupid amount of time with something that moves around the board at stupid speeds.

GalacticDefender wrote:In a standard game of 40k, why only 6 turns? It seems pretty stupid to me and my friends, who just play until an entire army is eliminated

Because this gets boring, fast. It's a much different, and in my experience, vastly more interesting game when you have reasons to run in other directions that straight in at the enemy, and have to work to keep some of your squishier units alive, because they're what you need to actually win.

I find for 1500 or less i don't need more than 5 turns. It pays to be aggressive sometimes.
Most of my apocolypse games run for 3 turns also (mostly due to time but Carefull Planning and Flank March speed the game up)

There is a battle mission called 'Fight to the Death' if your interested, where there is no turn limit, no objectives, no KP, no VP... just last man standing.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:This ain't ever gonna happen, but what if you are both down to one model each?

Could end up with a chase around the table, ended only by the last trump.

If playing in a store it would be a fairer system to have limited turns? Other people waiting to play and all that.

Chess can end in a draw if one player has only his King left and manages to avoid mate for a number of turns -- I can't remember the precise rule.

There are quite a few ways to Draw in chess, youre probably thinking of the 50 move rule (no capture or pawn move in 50 turns) or if checkmate is impossible, which depending on what the opponent has is more than possible with just a King left. I think king and bishop vs king makes a checkmate impossible, cant recall though

@ OP: Just pick scenarios which are "until the other army is eliminated" or modify a non-objective scenario such as Annihilation to have no limit. If the provided rules do not suit you and your opponent, just change them to an agreable format.
Just keep in mind that some armies are built more towards objective capture than endure-and-kill.

nosferatu1001 wrote:There are quite a few ways to Draw in chess, youre probably thinking of the 50 move rule (no capture or pawn move in 50 turns) or if checkmate is impossible, which depending on what the opponent has is more than possible with just a King left. I think king and bishop vs king makes a checkmate impossible, cant recall though

Yes, it's possible to make the other king unable to move, but since the other king isn't allowed to move into a checked possition, well...

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:

dbsamurai wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
Personally, I'd like a game of Apoc to last 6 turns as opposed to only 3, but that's just me.

off topic but did I miss something? i thought Apoc was 6-7 turns max like "normal" games

They are, I just haven't had any recently last that long. Time's been called at turn 3 or so because people don't seem to want to devote an entire weekend for Apoc.

Actually Apoc is based on time limits and not turn limits.

Mahtamori wrote:@ OP: Just pick scenarios which are "until the other army is eliminated" or modify a non-objective scenario such as Annihilation to have no limit. If the provided rules do not suit you and your opponent, just change them to an agreable format.

This. The beauty of 40k is that you can play however you want to play. Don't like a 6 turn limit? Play for 10 turns or play for 3. Don't like a rule? Make up a new rule. All that matters is that you and your opponent have fun. So if you are playing with people you know, feel free to change it up and alter the rules. Believe me, it can be a lot of fun.

GalacticDefender wrote:In a standard game of 40k, why only 6 turns? It seems pretty stupid to me and my friends, who just play until an entire army is eliminated, but seriously, why the 6 turn thing?

I used to play like this too. Then I got into the tournament scene and I couldn't imagine going back. There's just so much more to the game once you step outside of this arena.

No offense, OP, just saying - there's so much more to the game than building a list and just killing stuff until there's nothing left to kill.