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greetings, my topic up for discussion today is,

i have 3 slots open on my foot slogging marine list to add devastator squads. but my question is how to equip them. i'm thinking 2 teams of missile launchers and a team of HB, or just 3 teams of ML, or just go all out with HB, i thought ML were the way to go but after doing some research i found out that they might not be as good as i thought. so how do you equip your devastator squads if you take them, and how should i deal with armor using the vanilla codex w/o vehicles or dreadnaughts. thanks kindly

My DIY Devs are full 10 man Squads, Sgnt with Bolt Gun and Chain Sword.
1st Dev is 4 Plasma Cannons
2nd Dev is 4 Plasma Cannons
3rd Dev is 4 Heavy Bolters

I keep 1 & 2 stay in thier 10 man squads
#3 I Combat Squad most of the time with 2 HB in each

plasma cannons are something i would like to try out but "get's hot" scares me a little. is it really as bad as i think it is, expecially when i'm rolling four shots at a time? also how do plasma cannons do against all types of armor, since these will really be my main defense against tanks and armor ?

They work best vs Light Armor and MEQs.
They aslo ignore FNP

I second Anpu42. I'm a big believer in plasma cannons and would take two full squads of devs. with plasma cannons. Combat squading a third squad with heavy bolters or missile launchers is a good idea. I have never used three squads of devs. but that might be the way I would go.

i either do 4 Missiles or 2 plasma cannon and 2 lascannon.

Las/plas squad will combat squad to focus fire.

Missile squad stays together for concentrated missile fire. although i would sooner take 3 Typhoons as they are cheaper and have more weapons AND most importantly they are immune to the almighty flashlight.

Bio-Merc91207 wrote:I thought ML were the way to go but after doing some research i found out that they might not be as good as i thought. so how do you equip your devastator squads if you take them, and how should i deal with armor using the vanilla codex w/o vehicles or dreadnaughts. thanks kindly

Missiles absolutely are the way to go. The only exception would be plasma cannons because no other marine unit really has multiple template stopping power that can also be modestly effective against vehicles and ignores 2+ armor/FNP.

ML are the most cost effective(or at least the least cost-prohibitive), But again Plasma Cannons are more Killy(just damned expensive) assuming your target is out of cover.

A Lascannon Squad would be hellish vs enemy armor but cost an ungodly amount of points and do not do as well as they could.

Multi-meltas create a nice No-fly zone for vehicles, but their short range and Heavy Status makes them ineffective tank hunters.

Heavy Bolters are cost effective and put pout quite a bit of fire at medium range but unit-tasks the unit to Anti-infantry only.

Plasma Cannons tack on an extra 100 points to devastate(puny) All infantry and wreck Light vehicles (up to AV12; well you can damage 13)

Missile launchers can Blast the tar out of light Infantry, Or kill Light to medium Vehicles (and can even damage AV14)

In looking at the killing power of Plasma vs Frag Missiles AP can mostly be ignored due to 5th editions proliferation of Cover, although the Mush higher Str of the Plasma means you will likely Hurt everything you hit. The only thing to look at with Plasma's AP value is the denial of FNP.

oh hey, another dev thread

2 plasma squads and 2 ML squads- 4 frag missiles hurt infantry good, and can threaten vehicles too

I would either go with 4 ml's or 3 ml's and a lc.

I would never go with a full 10 man squad. Just a waste of points...

I equip them with special "dust boots" that protect them from all the dust that accumulates while they sit on the shelf.

a valid point i guess, i tried them in a game and they're not bad but they are just regular marines when it's all said and done, they were crushed before turn 3 was over. i'm going to go with one team and 2 dreads or just 3 dreads for the same 160 points each. it should be better. thanks for all the help guys.

imweasel wrote:I would either go with 4 ml's or 3 ml's and a lc.

I would never go with a full 10 man squad. Just a waste of points...

But if you Cambat Squad them that giver you and extra "Fire Team" out thier.

I have a friend that combat squads them, and the way he does it it usually works fairly well. He takes 2 lascannons and 2 plasma cannons and puts the lascannons in one combat squad and the plasma in the other combat squad. One for anti-infantry and one for anti-tank. This approach is expensive, but it works.

Anpu42 wrote:

imweasel wrote:I would either go with 4 ml's or 3 ml's and a lc.

I would never go with a full 10 man squad. Just a waste of points...

But if you Cambat Squad them that giver you and extra "Fire Team" out thier.

5 bolter marines that can't score is not a fire team.

Yes, they cant score, but you can use them as aditinal fire suport or to hold one of your objectives on your side.

plasma cannons and Lascannons. May overheat but at least I have comic relief!

I go with 4x missiles. I've not enough heavy weapon Marines to field them any other way, beyond 2xML and 2x MM, which would just be silly.
I take the 10-man squad, so I have the flexibility of combat squadding if needed, or keeping them whole and having five ablative wounds in the squad.

I would like to say that the 5 man bolter team can be very easily confused for a tac squad on the table and may be used well as a "hey look theres a troop choice on that objective lets kill it" distraction unit. you wait for said 5 man squad to get destroyed and then move in with the hammer to kill whatever unit just went and exposed themselves

Missiles.

All day, every day.

They are the best choice from an efficiency stand point.

Ok stuff to remember: You can take armour saves from gets hot, its just like getting shot, if you save your fine. Its a risk worth taking for the damage you can inflict

Second, Dev sarges have a signum, so bs 5 for one trooper. This is insanely good for heavy bolters or krak missiles, and personally i like 3 heavy bolter's and one missile lawn-chair. Lascannons are pointal suicide, 35 points! but plasma cannons are a good buy, even at 25.

If you want cheap, go with MLs and HBs, but if you want uberdeath, maybe 2 lascannons 2 plasma cannon?

It's worth considering whether your Devastators are going to have Combat Tactics or not, or some version of Chapter Tactics. Likewise consider their transport. Devastators are part of an army you know.

You will almost always want to take 4 of the same weapon unless you are planning on always combat squadding them, in which case the best bet is still 4 ML's.

Missile Launchers are better at anti horde in almost every case than a heavy bolter due to stacking blast templates. They are great at popping vehicles and killing MC's.

Las cannons and Plasma cannons should be in Tac squads, IMO, where you get a better deal on them and each one can fire at a separate target.

Baring a special rule of some sort or always knowing who you will be playing ML's are the clear choice for the best all around unit.

Anpu42 wrote:Yes, they cant score, but you can use them as aditinal fire suport or to hold one of your objectives on your side.

They can't hold objectives, only contest. So you are going to use them to contest your own objective? Hmmm....

Or instead of spending 80pts on 5 bolter marines that can't score (and ld8), you could spend 10pts more for 5 bolter marines that can score and have a ld9 sgt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captain Idaeus wrote:I would like to say that the 5 man bolter team can be very easily confused for a tac squad on the table and may be used well as a "hey look theres a troop choice on that objective lets kill it" distraction unit. you wait for said 5 man squad to get destroyed and then move in with the hammer to kill whatever unit just went and exposed themselves

Or you could play good opponents and learn to play the game.

imweasel wrote:They can't hold objectives, only contest. So you are going to use them to contest your own objective? Hmmm....

Sorry I ment by hold Objectives was put them on one on your side of the table and hold them like you would tell a squad, "Go Hold the Position"

Or instead of spending 80pts on 5 bolter marines that can't score (and ld8), you could spend 10pts more for 5 bolter marines that can score and have a ld9 sgt

But I already am normaly fielding 3 full Tactical Squads. To add that extra 5 man would mean that I could not have the option of Combat Squading or use them on Operation: Meat Shield.

imweasel wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:Yes, they cant score, but you can use them as aditinal fire suport or to hold one of your objectives on your side.

They can't hold objectives, only contest. So you are going to use them to contest your own objective? Hmmm....

Or instead of spending 80pts on 5 bolter marines that can't score (and ld8), you could spend 10pts more for 5 bolter marines that can score and have a ld9 sgt.

That half-tac you're talking about is also an extra killpoint in every game. The dev-split bolters are only a killpoint if you combat squad them, which you don't have to do if you don't want or need to.

Captain Idaeus wrote:I would like to say that the 5 man bolter team can be very easily confused for a tac squad on the table and may be used well as a "hey look theres a troop choice on that objective lets kill it" distraction unit. you wait for said 5 man squad to get destroyed and then move in with the hammer to kill whatever unit just went and exposed themselves

Or you could play good opponents and learn to play the game.

How civil. Let us all bow to your infinite knowledge!

Or you could play good opponents and learn to play the game.

Even the best opponents can make mistakes.

Back on topic I think 4 ML's is the way to go for all around usefulness, though there is a place for HB's and plasma cannons.

I personally use a unit of 10 with 4 Missile launchers and combat squad them when I need to be able to spread my shooting.

This is one of my normal Plasma Spam List

Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike

Space Marine Chaplain in Power Amour (Digital Weapons; Melta Bombs; Jump Pack, Plasma Pistol)

Assault Squad (Bolt Pistol x7; Chainsword x9; Plasma Pistol x2)
-1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

1st Tactical Squad (Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun x1; Heavy Bolter x1)
-1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol x1; Power Weapon x1)

2nd Tactical Squad (Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun x1; Heavy Bolter x1)
-1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol x1; Power Weapon x1)

3rd Tactical Squad (Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun x1; Heavy Bolter x1)
-1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol x1; Power Weapon x1)

1st Devastator Squad (Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x5; Plasma Cannon x4)
-Sergeant (Bolter x1; Chainsword x1)

2nd Devastator Squad (Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x5; Plasma Cannon x4)
-Sergeant (Bolter x1; Chainsword x1)

3rd Devastator Squad (Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x5; Heavy Bolter x4)
-Sergeant (Bolter x1; Chainsword x1)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

TheRhino wrote: The dev-split bolters are only a killpoint if you combat squad them, which you don't have to do if you don't want or need to.

A combat squaded squad counts as 2 kill points as it says in the codex that as soon as you deploy them they count as 2 squads for all game purposes.

TheRhino wrote: The dev-split bolters are only a killpoint if you combat squad them, which you don't have to do if you don't want or need to.

A combat squaded squad counts as 2 kill points as it says in the codex that as soon as you deploy them they count as 2 squads for all game purposes.

I think you're misunderstanding me, which is likely my fault, lol.\

Compare these two options:

Option 1:
10-man Devastator squad, 4x missiles, 1x sergeant, 5x bolters.

Option 2:
5-man Devastator squad, 4x missile, 1x sergeant.
5-man Tactical squad, 1x sergeant, 4x bolters.

Option 1 can be combat squadded if you want. If you split it into the 4x missiles+sergeant, and 5x bolters, each combat squad is worth a KP. But that would be foolish, since you can deploy it as one 10-man squad in an Annihilation mission instead, and give up only one KP.

Option 2 has no such options. Each unit will always be worth a KP each (2 total). You don't get the chance to deny killpoints by not combat squadding. Yu also eat up a Troops slot, AND a Heavy slot. Yes, the 5-man Tac is scoring, but the two options are not freely interchangable. The current tourney scene tends to use KPs as secondary criteria for Massacre, Major, Minor results. KP denial is important.