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At an impasse preparing for a local friendly tourney in a week with my Blood Angels

I am running currently with the following for 1500pts (roughly)

The Sanguinor - Mostly for added attack

2 Assault squads
>8 troops
>1 Sergeant
>Sanguinary Priest (with jetpack)

>8 troops
>1 Sergeant
>Sanguinary Priest (with jetpack)

10 Man Terminator Assault Squad with TH/SS with Sanguinary priest

Reclusiarch
9 Death Company with BP and Chainsword
Drop Pod on first round.


The design of this it to drop in and cause as much confusion and devastation as possible while the rest of my forces move in. The high amount of attacks from death company and higher weapon skill combined with the reclusiarch added bonus of rerolling BOTH to hit and to wound misses should hit hard. The drop pod mostly assures picking the first target. After it is gone the Death Company Rage about as a distracting wrecking ball. The enemy would have no choice but to focus on them, letting my units advance mostly unharmed.

MY QUESTION is if I should drop the Sanguinor, and use those points to give ALL Death Company power weapons (150 pts) turning their first 40 assault hits with reroll to hit and wound into unsaved wounds. I would then have 100 points to beef the wargear of the assault squads, and to add another priest to roll with the terminators. I would, however, lose the extra attack granted by the Sanguinor.

What do you think?

P.S. I do not yet have a land raider, so suggesting it for the termies is not possible right now.

I'd personally stick the Death Company in Land Raiders here. Reduce the Terminator Squad in number (or drop them entirley) and also drop the Tact Squad (or "troops" as you put it) but keep the Sangunor. Then put the Death Company (with Power Weapons - 4 attacks on the charge at BS and S5 that ignore armour saves hurts!!!) in a Land Raider because if not then your Death Company will land down in the Drop Pod and recieve one round of massed firepower. In the Land Raider they are safe from that and can assault when they get out. If you still don't have the points for a Land Raider, stick the Death Company in a Stormraven. It may have weaker armour than a Land Raider but with you going Flat Out, it will recieve a Cover Save. When you are ready to strike with the Death Company, simply move the Stormraven 12" and unleash them on a powerful unit, even an enemy HQ like Abaddon. Also, if you stick them in a Stormraven, put Lemartes with them rather than the Reclusiarch. He is lethal with the Death Company and a squad of 10 of them with him is fierce. Here is the list you should go for IMO:

HQ:
Sanguinor - 275

Elites:
Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack - 75
Furioso Librarian Dreadnought (with Wings of Sanguinius and Blood Lance) - 175

Troops:
Assault Squad with Sergeant with Power Weapon and Storm Shield - 135
Lemartes with 10 Death Company with Power Weapons - 500
Death Company Dreadnought with Blood Talons - 125

Heavy Support:
Stormraven with Twin-Linked Multi-Melta and Extra Armour - 215

With this list you should have the Furioso Librarian keeping in cover, moving 12" or firing an ,on average, 12-15" range S8 AP1 Melta shot at nearby units. The Sanguinor should not Deep Strike, instead keep him soaking up fire (which he does really well) and moving straight towards the enemy HQ which he WILL mash to bits. The DC and DC Dread should be in the Stormraven. These two units will take down hordes with ease. The Assault Squad, along with the Sanguinary Priest, should Deep Strike into cover/hidden behind a small building/cliff etc... and assault whats left the turn after they Deep Strike. With FNP they will survive 1 round of average firepower with ease. The Death Compnay also have FNP so when they win their first assault, they'll take a lot of fire which they will survive (put a sneaky wound on Lemartes so he is S5 and A5 ). This list is very good for having Death Compnay in their. Hope I helped.

Mephiston is nasty, why not play him?

reidy gave some sound advice.

G

he also completely changed the list around, and suggested something that the OP said he can't do yet.


to the OPs question. Dropping the sanguinor to add power weps seems like a good idea to me, it turns the death company into a death star as opposed to how you currently have it set up, where a handful of units can actually stand up to and win against.

I would add one maybe two powerfist in addition to the power weapons. Would hate for them to get tarpitted agasint a MC or Dread. Need something to allow them to get dislodged from them.

I do realize the risk of not having a land raider. It would be great if I could afford one right now, but thems the breaks.

Yet even though I would have to take a round of fire, there are still some positives. First, you still take fire moving up a field, and will take less worthless losses while advancing. DC rage also makes you need a way to set up your priority target to direct combat. Lastly the drop pod does provide some cover and fire support. There is no stormraven yet, so can't play that. As far as mephiston, I'm on the fence. He is pretty nasty, but he's not a force multiplier. I have had the Sanguinor in between two 10 man assault squads, which added 20 attacks. That's pretty lethal.

When I said "Troops" I was giving you the breakdown of my assault squads. I do not roll with tactical marines.

Here's one problem

any armor 11 walker is going to stomp over and tie up that DC squad for the entire game, find a way to get a power fist in there.

Grundz wrote:Here's one problem

any armor 11 walker is going to stomp over and tie up that DC squad for the entire game, find a way to get a power fist in there.

They come with gernades I do believe, so they can hurt AV12. The problem is AV 13 Iron Clads and such. That is when you need the fist.

Cut the termies. They're great power units, but sloooowwwww. Plus you DS and your vunerable to giant template doom

jbunny wrote:

Grundz wrote:Here's one problem

any armor 11 walker is going to stomp over and tie up that DC squad for the entire game, find a way to get a power fist in there.

They come with gernades I do believe, so they can hurt AV12. The problem is AV 13 Iron Clads and such. That is when you need the fist.

I always forget about those things, but my statement stands, FIST EM.

Zid wrote:Cut the termies. They're great power units, but sloooowwwww. Plus you DS and your vunerable to giant template doom

It's called RUN.. unless you roll a 1 you should be fine.

dereksatkinson wrote:

Zid wrote:Cut the termies. They're great power units, but sloooowwwww. Plus you DS and your vunerable to giant template doom

It's called RUN.. unless you roll a 1 you should be fine.

Even with a run, it'll take you 2+ turns to get anywhere, and any smart player will move AWAY to put distance on you... i had one game where my termies (even with rolling 5's and 6's to run) didn't get into the fray until T5 because my opponent played it smart

Zid wrote:

dereksatkinson wrote:

Zid wrote:Cut the termies. They're great power units, but sloooowwwww. Plus you DS and your vunerable to giant template doom

It's called RUN.. unless you roll a 1 you should be fine.

Even with a run, it'll take you 2+ turns to get anywhere, and any smart player will move AWAY to put distance on you... i had one game where my termies (even with rolling 5's and 6's to run) didn't get into the fray until T5 because my opponent played it smart

Not every match is annihilation. If they chose to run I can sit in cover an an objective. They can enjoy wasting several turns to run back. To the comment about walkers, and other tie ups. I really don't know if you guys are thinking about how drop pods work. It is quite easy to drop in a place to where you are not in run range of certain enemies. Most opponents I face are not fielding ap2 pie plates. Most ordinance I have ever see still grants armor/cover/feel no pain saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, at 1500 points I ended up with this

squad I

8 Assault Marines and sergeant and a sanguinary priest, added infernus pistol

squad II

8 Assault Marines and sergeant and a sanguinary priest

squad III

10 TH/SS terminators + sanguinary priest

squad IV

reclusiarch and 9 death company in a drop pod
2 death company have power fists, the rest have power swords.
drop pod upgraded to deathwind launcher (will set up a barrage of fire and pie plate shot first round, and HEAVY melee unsaved wounds galore thereafter.

UPDATE: Had 10 points left, used them to upgrade the two death company power fists to thunder hammers for extra vehicle effectiveness.

your assault squads could use power weapons at least. they arn't all that scary if they don't have PWs.


10 Hammer bros seems like its too expensive for a 1500 pt match. don't BAs have to pay extra for TH/SS? i would drop them for a Furioso Librarian with Wings and put the Priest in with the death company(unless they already have FNP and FC)

or get another assault squad and flesh out the existing ones to 10 man. your list is rather low on bodies and, even with FNP, it could hurt you. also 1 melta weapon and only 2 PFs will make going against a Mech list tough. BA Assault marines can get Melta guns(lucky #@$*!%^) take advantage of that.

Grey Templar wrote:your assault squads could use power weapons at least. they arn't all that scary if they don't have PWs.


10 Hammer bros seems like its too expensive for a 1500 pt match. don't BAs have to pay extra for TH/SS? i would drop them for a Furioso Librarian with Wings and put the Priest in with the death company(unless they already have FNP and FC)

or get another assault squad and flesh out the existing ones to 10 man. your list is rather low on bodies and, even with FNP, it could hurt you. also 1 melta weapon and only 2 PFs will make going against a Mech list tough. BA Assault marines can get Melta guns(lucky #@$*!%^) take advantage of that.

thanks for the advice, but this list is actually pretty mob oriented for marines. There are FAR more bodies on the table that I have ever had with vanilla. The assault squads both have melta bombs, the DC has two hammers. DC also already has the stats of a priest without a priest included. You really couldn't put more men on the table as marines unless you got rid of all specialization and put base tactical on the table, which would be suicide.

i see only 36 marines.

i can get more in a Vanilla Gunline list and wipe your list from afar.

Grey Templar wrote:i see only 36 marines.

i can get more in a Vanilla Gunline list and wipe your list from afar.

are you unaware how drop pods and deep striking work with decent of the angels? I would also have FNP rolls from almost every single roll against you. You would have a difficult time wiping anything with tac vanilla before you were in melee, and then I would be throwing around piles of unsaves wounds at high initiative and strength vs. your base moves and my armor and again FNP. It's actually 41 models.

Perhaps you were thinking you get a bunker and I would be foot slogging up an open field? That's not the way this works...

i forgot to count the Priests. still only 39 marines. 2 assault squads with priest(9+9=18) 10 hammer bros and priest(18+11=29) 9 DC with reclusiarch(29+10=39)


i am well aware of how BAs roll.

my Plasma spam gunline would love for you to land close by BTW

i double tap plasma into your DC along with all the anti-tank that has nothing better to do.

i assault ICdreadnoughts into your asault squads who can't hurt them back at all.


the ONLY thing i have to worry about is your TH termies and they are avoidable.






NEVER under estimate a Marine gunline, most people don't do it right. yes, guard can do it better, but compared to most armies out there its deadly. and T'au are shooty, but most of their weight of fire is relativly close ranged(railguns don't carry a gunline by themselves)

Grey Templar wrote:i forgot to count the Priests. still only 39 marines. 2 assault squads with priest(9+9=18) 10 hammer bros and priest(18+11=29) 9 DC with reclusiarch(29+10=39)


i am well aware of how BAs roll.

my Plasma spam gunline would love for you to land close by BTW

i double tap plasma into your DC along with all the anti-tank that has nothing better to do.

i assault ICdreadnoughts into your asault squads who can't hurt them back at all.


the ONLY thing i have to worry about is your TH termies and they are avoidable.






NEVER under estimate a Marine gunline, most people don't do it right. yes, guard can do it better, but compared to most armies out there its deadly. and T'au are shooty, but most of their weight of fire is relativly close ranged(railguns don't carry a gunline by themselves)

You are still counting out taking a full round of rapid fire from drop pod units and deathwind (pieplate), to soften you up, cover, melta bombs/weapons for the dreadnoughts (which will handle it quite nicely), and again thinking I am simply going to walk up an open field to your units. With drop pods, deepstriking, buildings and cover I can move in safely. You seem to be thinking one dimensionally.

By the way
9 AM + priest=10
9 AM + priest=10
9 DC+ Rec=10
10 TH/SS + priest =11

that's 41

your original post had 8 assault marines per squad.

Grey Templar wrote:your original post had 8 assault marines per squad.

nope.

I said 8 marines, and one sergeant. Then a priest makes a merry band of 10 people rolling about.

Wouldnt giving power weapons to DC just make them fire magnets?