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Regular Dakkanaut




Well, I remember my first GT, we had to send the army lists in ahead of time(along with the fluff for comp scores.) So one would think that it was so someone could look over the lists and make sure that they were all legal.

As far as checking the lists at the tournament, at the first Dallas GT, when the comp judges were going around, some of them didn't even understand some of the basic army lists that they were judging. Example, Steve Bynum took VC. The judge was going to dock him for not having many core choices when the list had along the lines of 7 core choices.

I think it could be done, but it would need to be multiple people and have them know certain army books/codexes. And then check the lists against the book/codex instead of going off memory.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





The problem originally with the army list reviews, I believe were when they decided they didn't need Outriders at the GT's. The Outriders being there basically for some credit were happy to check over the lists and since they were required to have a good understanding of the rules for demo's and tourney's they did a fair job. Then GW decided they didn't need them at GT's and it started to go downhill from that point. I went to Conflict Vancouver (last year I think) and it was a complete joke. They had a winning army, and then shortly before the awards section, they realized the Eldar Banshee Temple army that should win was around a 2000 point army instead of the 1700 points it was supposed to be at (i think it was 1700 points). So I agree, there needs to be a beforehand review so that embarrassing things like that don't happen again.

Golden Demon standard?? I can barely paint Great Unclean One standard! 
   
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Nice that I finally might be able to make a GT for once

So we should expect to see infiltrating statured princes here?
   
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Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

Posted By brettz123 on 11/15/2006 7:11 AM
Mr. Hall,
I played in the 2006 GT in Atlanta (finished fourth) and I had several concerns.

1. We pay out a lot more to attend these then someone just attending Gamesday.

2. A lack of centralized army list checking leads to some problems.

3. Any chance it could be spread over two days instead of one?
Brett

For your questions:

#1. I think you are right. For the gamesday tournaments you have to buy a gamesday pass, and then you have to pay another fee to play in the Tournament.  The problem is that you are so busy that you don't get to enjoy, or participate in the gamesday events. I don't know what can be done about this. You might be paying for all the tables and terrain that they have to ship out for the tournament. What they might be able to do is for the Gamesday Tourneys is lower the point limits (to like 1500 points) so that the games are faster, and the breaks are longer.

#2. Yes it does. Some people will cheat, and there has to be at least the appearence or threat of someone looking over their army list to keep them honest.

#3. You are mixing up GTs with the Gamesday Tournaments. A GT has 5 games over 2 days. They will be held in Las Vegas, and Baltimore. The Gamesday Tournaments will be three games over one day and be held in Baltimore, Atlanta and Los Angeles. (With Chicago being both a GT and a Gamesday)


 
   
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Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

Mr Hall:

Since you are looking over these posts, there is something that I have been meaning to ask you...

Is there anyway that you can update the RTT missions? The GW site still has the same missions that we have been playing for years that are 3rd edition. Now that we have been in 4th edition for years now, they really need to be updated.

Perhaps put the GT missions up for the RTT missions...something.


 
   
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Castle Clarkenstein

[sarcasm] So GW is going to run the tournaments right by letting other people run them? Nice [/sarcasm]

I think this looks like a great step forward.

So what the hell do you want them to do? Take over the indie GT's? Just walk in, point some guns, and claim they are in charge?

 GW is running their GT's. Other people are running independent GT's. Is there something wrong with that?

At the end of the season they rank players by how well they did taking all of the GT's, both GW and Indie, into account.


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Posted By Blackmoor on 11/15/2006 10:01 AM
 The GW site still has the same missions that we have been playing for years that are 3rd edition.

 

Can you provide a link to them?  I've wondered where to find them

   
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south florida

Hey Jeff

In regards to the missions. Having infiltrate and deep strike on every mission was fine. People should be able to use there special abilitys. The other special things were fine also but a person could have played escalation on every mission. Not a big fan of reserves, one game is cool but not all of them. Also the people that omega missions had access to more points than people with gamma missions.

All you have to do is have it set up  the missions ahead of time. As a standard rule all have infiltrate and deep strike. Then just add extra stuff to them. Easy as all get out.

 


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Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

Posted By skyth on 11/15/2006 3:58 PM
Posted By Blackmoor on 11/15/2006 10:01 AM
 The GW site still has the same missions that we have been playing for years that are 3rd edition.

 

Can you provide a link to them?  I've wondered where to find them


http://us.games-workshop.com/community/rtt/downloads/assets/Tournament/40KScenarios.pdf


 
   
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Posted By stormboy97 on 11/16/2006 6:58 AM

The other special things were fine also but a person could have played escalation on every mission. Not a big fan of reserves, one game is cool but not all of them.

No, we need to keep Escalation on at least 50% of the games and add Reserves to others just for fun. Don't forget that Escalation really benefits a lot of armies (and punishes others, mostly Space Marines which is why we hear so much whining about it).

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Posted By Blackmoor on 11/16/2006 7:53 AM
Posted By skyth on 11/15/2006 3:58 PM
Posted By Blackmoor on 11/15/2006 10:01 AM
 The GW site still has the same missions that we have been playing for years that are 3rd edition.

 

Can you provide a link to them?  I've wondered where to find them


http://us.games-workshop.com/community/rtt/downloads/assets/Tournament/40KScenarios.pdf
So these are the missions played at the GT's every year?

Good stuff to know...
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Those are not the missions played at the GTs. Those are the old Rogue Trader Tournament downloads for stores and clubs.

We are looking at updating all the RTT info as well for 2007. Stay tuned for details.
Jeff Hall
GWUS Community Manager
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think GW needs to get off its butt and take a serious look at its compeditive gamneing sceen. There are those of us that do not want to spend thier vacation time to play in a warhammer turnamennt. What they need to do is look into what thie coimpedetors are doing. Wizards of the Coast has an awsome compedative gaming seen for its games, with a national ranking system and everything.
   
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Posted By BryanC on 11/17/2006 6:40 AM
Wizards of the Coast has an awsome compedative gaming seen for its games, with a national ranking system and everything.
Did you catch the part about the player IDs, or were you too busy working on your spelling homework?

Ohhh yeahhhh!!!
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




I think GW needs to get off its butt and take a serious look at its compeditive gamneing sceen. There are those of us that do not want to spend thier vacation time to play in a warhammer turnamennt. What they need to do is look into what thie coimpedetors are doing. Wizards of the Coast has an awsome compedative gaming seen for its games, with a national ranking system and everything.

What does this post even mean?? First off, learn to spell. Second, what they did was create a COMPETITIVE gaming SCENE that has rankings and everything. This is why I hate the internet!!!
   
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I think you shoud get off your butt and learn how to spell.......

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And yes I spelled should wrong on purpose....... but the real question is what is a compedative coimpedetor??? My head hurts just reading that post

3500 pts Black Legion
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south florida

No, we need to keep Escalation on at least 50% of the games and add Reserves to others just for fun. Don't forget that Escalation really benefits a lot of armies (and punishes others, mostly Space Marines which is why we hear so much whining about it).

 

What???????????????????????????????????????

marines are the least effected, but that is not the point.

The point is nobody wants to travel and pay to play to be able to only use part of his army over a tournament.


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Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

Escalation is part of 4th edition of 40k, just like missions without infiltrate of deep strike.

You should not always be able to count on everything being optimal for your army. That is why you build your army appropriately.

So don't bring an all infiltrating demon bomb, Godzilla nids, wytch cult or any of the other one trick armies without having a strategy to counter unfavorable missions.

Heck, why do we have missions at all? We should just all take footslogging marines and stand and shot. Of course the person who wins the die roll to go first wins.


 
   
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Colorado

Escalation is part of 4th editon, but a 50% ratio is not. In a tournament of 5 games it should be 1-2 missions with it, as well as 1-2 missions without infiltrate and deepstrike.


NoTurtlesAllowed.blogspot.com 
   
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Posted By stormboy97 on 11/17/2006 12:15 PM

What???????????????????????????????????????

marines are the least effected, but that is not the point.

Where did you get that little gem from? :|  Unless you go all-infantry, which is not a popular option in 40k4e, Space Marines get shafted by Escalation. Practically every unit choice in their Codex is non-'infantry'.

I've never yet met a SM player who likes Escalation. I've met plenty of players who do, but not one was a SM player, I can tell you that much.

Tau, Eldar and other armies are likewise affected but this actually benefits them. IG are also affected, but have a cheap and very effective way of exceeding/preventing the effects. Some armies are neutral (such as Necrons or droppodding Marines).

The army that gets shafted the worst (more often than not) is Tyranids. But unless you're going with droppods or all-'infantry'-infantry, Space Marines run a close second. Tons of stuff starting off the board and no way to get it on the board faster or slower.




Green Blow Fly wrote:Arseholes need to be kept in check. They do exist and play 40k.

Ironically, they do. So do cheats. 
   
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Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

Everything in moderation.

I think they should have one or two escalation missions.

I also think they should have one or two missions without deepstrike or infiltrate.


 
   
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West Chester, PA

Nobody really commented on the possibility of 1750 instead of 1850. I am finding it hard to drop 100 pts from my tourney list. Any thoughts on this change?

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Posted By Whitescar on 11/20/2006 11:13 AM
Nobody really commented on the possibility of 1750 instead of 1850. I am finding it hard to drop 100 pts from my tourney list. Any thoughts on this change?


Yup, I have one.  Its a shame they didn't go back to 1500 points, which is what 40k is reportedly 'balanced' at.  It would also force hard choices in army selection, something that 1750 and 1850 don't do (not to mention speed up games, where if you've ever played horde nids, IG, or Orks, rarely get past turn 3 or 4).

That alone would tone down some wanky lists, while opening the door for others


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Aren't the UK GT Heats/Finals using 1500 points? If that's "balanced" then I'd rather the US stick to the 1700-2000 point range(for 40K)

The very first LAGT was 1700 points so 1750 isn't that big of a deal.

   
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Culver City, CA

What are the people you play running in their marine lists that they don't like escalation.

Pods don't care.
Las/plas squads start on.
Devs start on.
Terminators start on.

Land speeders start off, but at least they'll have SMF going when they do arrive, which is why Tau and Eldar like escalation.

"There is no such thing as a cheesy space marine army, but any army that can beat space marines is cheesy. " -- Blackmoor

 
   
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Posted By Cruentus on 11/20/2006 11:43 AM
Posted By Whitescar on 11/20/2006 11:13 AM
Nobody really commented on the possibility of 1750 instead of 1850. I am finding it hard to drop 100 pts from my tourney list. Any thoughts on this change?


Yup, I have one.  Its a shame they didn't go back to 1500 points, which is what 40k is reportedly 'balanced' at.  It would also force hard choices in army selection, something that 1750 and 1850 don't do (not to mention speed up games, where if you've ever played horde nids, IG, or Orks, rarely get past turn 3 or 4).

That alone would tone down some wanky lists, while opening the door for others

1500 is nice for speed and to force hard choices in list design, but it does get old after a while.  I tend to find that 1500pt lists are less "friendly" and tighter, because people feel like they barely have enough points to get the units they need.  At 1750 or 1850 you see more fun variations in lists because people have the room to squeeze in a few toys and interesting units.

If you're not getting past turn 3 or 4 in a tournament, even with a horde, either you or your opponent need more practice. 


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Posted By frenrik on 11/20/2006 3:02 PM
What are the people you play running in their marine lists that they don't like escalation.

Pods don't care.
Las/plas squads start on.
Devs start on.
Terminators start on.

Land speeders start off, but at least they'll have SMF going when they do arrive, which is why Tau and Eldar like escalation.


Well, at least you've given it a little more thought than stormboy97 did.

To answer your question: Terminators, Terminator HQs, various HQs, Assault Marines, Land Speeders, Tactical Squads, Scout Squads, Preds, and, less frequently, Land Raiders and Bikes.

Of those, only Tactical/Scout Squads start on the board. Land Speeders, as you say (and as I have previously pointed out) benefit from Escalation.

Terminators can start on the board but if they do, in all likelihood they'll do little or nothing all game. Assault Marines, Chaplains with Jump Packs, Preds, Land Raiders and Bikes all start off-table.

In fact, practically everything in the SM:C starts off-table in Escalation games. Hence the problem.

And yes, droppod Marines don't care (as I have already previously stated). But every other Marine army build will.


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Ironically, they do. So do cheats. 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut



south florida

Where did you get that little gem from? :|  Unless you go all-infantry, which is not a popular option in 40k4e, Space Marines get shafted by Escalation. Practically every unit choice in their Codex is non-'infantry'.

well lets see I got that gem by paying attention, isnt the all infantry list the mauleed standard. Ed is the dakka lord isn't he??. Ed's list is as hard as nails and very effective. so except for a couple units he has everything on the table. I guess that would count as not really being effected.

 


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Southeastern PA, USA

The army that gets shafted the worst (more often than not) is Tyranids. But unless you're going with droppods or all-'infantry'-infantry, Space Marines run a close second. Tons of stuff starting off the board and no way to get it on the board faster or slower.


I gotta agree with Marc on this one. I sort of understand what you're saying, but most competitive SM armies I've seen ARE of the pod and infantry-heavy varieties. I don't understand your argument regarding Terminators, as they're a very good DS unit. And I just don't see a lot of bikes or vehicle-heavy SM armies anymore. You have a point regarding the number of "infantry" units in the SM list, but it's kinda rendered moot by what units players actually field and how they use them.

If someone's SM army is getting "shafted" (to use your word) by escalation, then I think it's more a matter of them planning and playing poorly.

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