=I= DAMNATUS =I=

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**Orlanth**

Nice to have you aboard Oktavian, welcome to Dakka.

This is interesting, it looks like GW dont want to stop you.

It may well be that the only way around the copyright issue is to issue a formal licence in return for a %.

This would allow the film to be syndicated and many TV channels (SCI-Fi, Bravo, Channel 4) are crying out for new SF films to show. A broadcast would to your film (and GW) no end of good.

On the other hand as this was a not for profit production to begin with what happens to the proceeds if the project suddenly turns commercial. You guys who worked on the film will want some, as well you should.

**upliftingprimer**

welcome abord Oktavian. dont worry about your bad english about it. i find that people form outside the US tend to speek english better then we can

back to the movie

since it was made in germany, by a german film company, youd think german laws should aply more then british, but then comen sence is a rare gift now adays. if you can't get GWs go ahead, edit out the wing skulls every thing else you can say you took from history eg napolens eleat troops where called the impereal gaurd, the spanish inquasition, the Roman impereal aquala (also used later by the russans) most of the stuff copy righted by GW was taken from history

in the end i think GW will settle for a cut of the profit as it gives them publisity, and who better to make a movie about the 40k then the fans

now please tell me there w ill be a english vershtion or atlest english subtitles

now back to praying to the omnissiah ... um, any one got some prares?

**Oktavian**

Hello again

I would like to clarify the situation a bit as my last posting doesn't seem to have gotten the whole thing across.

GW has nothing against the film, or against it being released (they haven't even seen the finished version).
However, they don't want to put their name to anything, which giving us a license would definitely do. Additionally, there is a law in Britain which forces companies to protect their traded marked property. If they "allow" people inofficially to use it, they can eventually loose the protection for the area (eg film). That would mean anyone who wanted could make a film using GW ideas. At least that is how I've understood it.

The lawyers are arguing about how to do it so that it works out for the best for all concerned. GW don't want to make the production commercial, so offering them a cut won't help. This has been going on for quite a long time now, hopeful it will be sorted soon so we can release it finally.

@ upliftingprimer
English subtitles are planned but are still a work in process. When they are finished, you will be able to download the normal german version of the film and a seperate file containing the subtitles, when the two files are stored in the same directory, the player should recognise that one file contains subtitles and will automatically display them in the film.

Greetings from Germany
Oktavian

**Orlanth**

Posted By Oktavian on 05/08/2007 2:14 PM
GW has nothing against the film, or against it being released (they haven't even seen the finished version).

Thankyou for the update, I missed Oktavians reply, must have been a fast day on this board.

1. I cannot see why GW management/legal team haven't asked for a review screening. They should at least be aware of what the film contains. They havent even ascertained for themselves as yet whether there is any 'inappropriate content', which is at least as important to the company as unathorised use of their IP. Sorry, this issue doesnt look like it has been competently handled by GW.

2. If they see the film, and it is as good as we all hope. They might actually want to put their name to it, maybe even premier it at/for the next German Games Day or major tournament. A good film will represent their product positively and it would be assinine to miss out on the opportunity to show the Warhammer 40,000 and Games Workshop iconography in the opening (or closing credits). Again unimaginative and incompetent planning by GW management.

3. A token license would protect their own IP while permitting the film to be released, on a commercial or non commercial level. You could at least then look at TV syndication (for a token fee) which will do GW a load of good in terms of product awareness. And you would get a great boost the first time you see your work on German TV, let alone when it is covered by UK and US satellite channels. Many people who play 40K will not have access to downloads. Many people who watch late night Tv might want to visit the Damnatus website asnd get introduced to the hobby that way. Yet another opportunity blindly thrown away.

With their 'no thanks' attitude to any form of involvement in this project you would be forgiven for thinking that GW requires no help in furthering their brand, especially in Germany. What irony.

If only GW management showed even a fraction of the imagination showed by the production team of this film.

**Hellfury**

Upon trying to decipher the german on the spharentor site, it seems apparent that this fan film wont be released.

I am not suprised, but I am pretty amazed that GW would throw away free marketing like that. From what I have seen, it wasnt that bad.

**hammerofulric**

If George Lucas with his much larger Star Wars franchise can survive fan films, what is GW's problem?

This is perverse protectionism!

Unfortunately, the fans who will shout loudest about this aren't GW's core business any more.

We're well past puberty, so GW doesn't care about what we say or do.

**upliftingprimer**

Posted By Orlanth on 05/18/2007 1:31 PM Many people who play 40K will not have access to downloads.

thats not true most everyone has acsess to downlodes be it threw freands, famly, school, or your local library.

anyway hope this gets worked out.

**grimshawl**

You have to wonder if those running Games Workshop actually like being seen as Asses or if there are actually people so oblivious to their own eneptitude that they dont realise how they come accross.

**Da Boss**

Well, it might not be so much that they are being a*$%&*)s as that they have to [rptect their IP because allowing it into the public domain would losen their hold on it.

Is it definite that this show won't be going forward?

**engine**

I have no doubt this will find it's way on to the internet. No one spends four years putting something like this together to just put it in a drawer and say "Oh well".

engine

**Flachzange**

I dunno how many of you actually check Sphärentor every once in a while, but heres the letter to mr. kirby, written by Huan Vu (hope you dont mind me posting this here Huan!!).

Seeing as there are several people here that would like to be kept informed about any progress.

Dear Mr. Kirby,

I do not know if you have heard about the issues around our Warhammer 40.000 fan film 'DAMNATUS', thus I would like to quickly tell you what has happened so far:
In 2003 we began producing - naive as we were - a film in full feature length which should play in the dark future of the 41st millennium. Now it is 2007 and yes, we have made it. It cost much pain, much sweat and surely a lot of money.
Three years ago your company contacted us and after some discussion about the phrasing of the legal disclaimer which is to be put in front of the film, a debate about differences between English and German legal systems began to develop which should span more than two years (due to some failed communication attempts). The consequence is: Games Workshop will not allow us to publish our completed work.
As we were told, this was decided at highest levels. It seems that it would be too risky and that there would be no possibility of drafting an agreement so that now we are 'left with the reality of this intractable situation being that Games Workshop cannot gain enough control over this derivative work to put our collective mind at ease'.

I would now like to know from you, as you surely are part of these implied 'highest levels': What does concern or trouble you? What can possibly happen?

We live in the so-called Digital Age. Right in this very minute, dozens of Games Workshop devotees are uploading and publishing their pieces of art, be it a short-story, be it a painting, or be it something else, most of them without approval. And what happens? Nothing more than other devotees seeing these examples of fan art, admiring or hating it, feeling inspired by it or not. There is a lot of really bad material out there, no doubt about it, but there are also fantastic paintings like those of Rado Javor or funny comic strips like 'Turning Signals of a Land Raider' by Stephan A Campbell (copyrighted by him by the way). That is reality. It is also reality that no one - legal details taken aside - personates a threat to your company. Quite the contrary: We, the creative fans, we are a benefit for you.

I now know a lot about the fundamental differences between the Anglo-American and the Continental European legal system, I now know that it seems impossible to find a 100% bullet-proof solution.
But why has it to be this way? Why has this enthusiastic fan film project to be treated like that? Only because it is complicated?

But it is not. It *can* become complicated. Why should it?

People will watch it. Some will like it and some will dislike it. Games Workshop may benefit from it or may not. And that is it.

Mr Kirby, I plead you to reconsider the decision and allow us to publish 'DAMNATUS', so that thousands of waiting fans finally get to see our work. It does not have to end like that.

Yours sincerely,
Huân Vu

P.S.: I am more than willing to send you a DVD with English subtitles, so that you can personally have a look at it, if you wish.

**Orlanth**

Well I now rest my hopes in bit torrent.

If anyone sees a copy spread the word here and at other sites.

If GW wont allow a release that can try to play whack a rat with every torrenter on dakka, farseer, bolter and chainsword....... &gt

**hammerofulric**

GW have, as a result of Damnatus, revised their IP policy to ban all fan films.

What we need is a campaign to tell GW they have got it wrong.

If George Lucas can manage with all those Star Wars fan films, what can GW have to fear?

GW promoted this film in White Dwarf around the world.

I'll be starting a web campaign to save Damnatus. Maybe we can get a demonstration at Games Day in September.

Anyone up for helping?

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SAVE_DAMNATUS/

Sign up, and spread the word throughout the interwebs.

Let's demonstrate at Gamesday 2007 in Birmingham, GW's top event, and show them that they are wrong.

**Frazzled**

Nah if this is your great problem in the world then you are truly blessed.

**Grot 6**

One of the issues that can and probibly will happen is a floodgate of more and more movies made, and possibly not in the best light. We all know that the world of 40k isn't a nice place, but think of what GW will think when they try to sell thier product, and there are some sort of bootleg porno's out there from someone with 40k as the motif. They cater to the 12 yr olds, sometimes movies arn't made with that demographic in mind, sometimes they are. I don't know, I'm just thinking it through here.
Bottom line, there is alot at stake about making a movie this close to the GW product.

Another thing to consider is some sort of cheap eurotrash ex easternbloc country muscling in on the action, ( heck even some American one at that!) making thier films, and then turning around and trying to sue GW for profits of the game.

the legal ramifications for this issue are more then just "Big Bad GW trying to be thier usual asnicks." They have a legit issue, and as well, this could easily transpire into other avenues, such as writers, the model makers, contraced works, etc.

Easily GW could compleatly shut down to negotiation, and go on the offensive, making you even have to give them profits, or a slice at least for things such as web comics, artworks, miniatures on contract etc. Even to the extent that "Professional Painters" could have themselves in the crosshairs of the copywrite candysnatchers.

Your little letter, or whatever isn't going to get you anything but resistance. You need to let the lawyers continue negotiation, and get ready to give up something if you think your going to get anywere with GW.

Kirby is an idiot, but he's not a fool.

**migsula**

IP is a tricky thing.

We should of course see the film to say if it is good publicy to GW

, but I think in this context anything is good and shouldn't be banned. If it is heaps of junk, it's just that, if it is good, then it only promotes the hobby AFAIK.

**Da Boss**

It's a damn shame they couldn't hurry up and come to this decision before the DAMNATUS crew had finished production.
Poor show on that.
But the IP is the IP... they have valid reasons for protecting it, unless the law is changed.

**migsula**

I watched the trailer.

I understand GW's decision.

**Galatea**

This isn't about Damnatus anymore.
It's about fans and their work.

Today it's movies, tomorrow it's fanwork stories and the day after tomorrow it's comics and your armies fluff or color sheme.

**Da Boss**

Hmmm.
I doubt it.
Especially on the fluff and colour schemes front.
I'm really sorry that this happened to you though, I think it is a stupid law. But I'm not a UK or Us citizen.

**Orlanth**

GW moronic management exheeds itself. Well I was proven right, they let the project completye itself nd then banned it when it would sdo the most damage. They could have told Spaerentor this two years ago, it would have saved them a lot of bother.

What beggars belief is that there will be an enormous loss of goodwill in the German speaking world, where GW is already making losses in its stores. When there are many many solutions.

At the very least all Copyright issues could be resolved by simply buying the film and then leasing it back to Spaerentor, at a token price of a few euro a year. Then GW owns the filom and therefore owns the copyright. Spaerentor isnt commercial so giving the film away is no loss to them, they get what they want, distribution of their film.

I knew Gw management were incompetent, but this just takes the biscuit.

**Broon**

I hope it's leaked.

**Agamemnon2**

Posted By Orlanth on 07/14/2007 3:11 PM

At the very least all Copyright issues could be resolved by simply buying the film and then leasing it back to Spaerentor, at a token price of a few euro a year. Then GW owns the filom and therefore owns the copyright. Spaerentor isnt commercial so giving the film away is no loss to them, they get what they want, distribution of their film.

Actually, from what I understood of the problem, it's a matter of Droit d'Auteur, or the moral rights of the makers regarding the movie. A peculiarity of some Continental European copyright legislations, these rights are inalienable, meaning the Damnatus crew can't give them away, nor sell them, nor in any other way transfer their fundamental rights from person to another except by dying and passing said rights via an inheritance.

From what I can gather, it was these rights that were the sticking point in GW's decision to destroy the project and bar the door from any future endeavors.

**pnweerar**

I think its time for a "leak damnatus" campaign.

**Orlanth**

Agamemnon, you are preaching to the chopir here. Continental copyright laws are not the real issue, just the excuse. after all Germany and France have media industries of their own if Unberrecht (sp) and Droit s'Arteur were insurmountable problems they would not.

Besides the makers already have copyright, whether or not the filmis distributed, so releasing it doesnt make any difference. If they must take some form of action to secure the copyright in the UK then purchasing, reflagging, renting, licencing and parodying are all acceptable means. If they need to keep bickering lawyers happy, just add "why did the space marine cross the road..." at the end, along with a lame puchline. Then if GW agrees the film is officially seen as 'humourous' take on the 40K universe and they can technically declare it a valid parody. Yes ridiculous I know, but less ridiculous than an outright ban.
A more sensible solution would be a token licence, or reflagging by registering Spearentor as a UK company, so UK law applies. They already covered the UK laws 'protection iof copyright must be maintained' process two years ago with the agreed worded disclaimer.

But all this is just very picky, bittorrent it and damn the fools at Nottingham.

**Ozymandias**

EDIT:

Removed my quote. Apologies to Chris, missed that (though it paints them in a good light so I'm a bit confused why he wouldn't want it out there).

To summarize:

GW Legal tried to find a way around the German IP laws so that they could get it released. They couldn't and without giving up some of their own IP rights. Additionally, it conflicted w/ a 3rd party that has some movie rights.

He also says later that he hasn't heard of any movie stuff even being thought about right now.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**Doctor Thunder**

Posted By Ozymandias on 07/16/2007 3:26 PM
" I'd rather you keep it to yourselves until something is officially
released. It would put me into a compromised position if it just winds
up cut and pasted somewhere"

Yeah, he also asked Kommandos not to repost it, it's even in the quote you posted. I suggest you take that down before you get Chris in trouble.

**Hellfury**

I really want to know who the third party is that was granted use to make movies using 40K IP.

I REALLY want to know.

Not that it will ever be utilized, but this is news.

**hammerofulric**

That might be a reference to Bloodquest by Exile Films. I know the film died before anything substantial was completed, but Exile Films may still have the rights.