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Posted By bebepaquito on 10/09/2007 2:55 PM

Posted By 40kenthusiast on 10/08/2007 11:38 AM
He's got a point, Alpha Recon is almost a defeat sentence for the Guard. Tanks can't cross the board without exposing side armor. Troops can't slog the board without getting shot below half.

We had 3 'Ard boys Imperial Guard players, none won the first mission. (one tied by sitting put and playing defense, other 2 lost by massacre trying for the win)

This brings me too another point,  if ard'boyz is about winning, why did they completly stack the deck IMO against guard?  At my Ard'boyz we had 2 guard players, myself and another.  And neither one of us won the first game.  Infact I suffered a horrible defeat.  I dont think any other army got hosed as much as guard on the first game.  1 extra d6 on ALL ordinance, and 1 extra d6 on ALL deep strike. 

Did any IG general's win the first round with your IG army?

Yep, myself and another guy at one of the other stores in my area (N VA)

I won the first game with my IG army. You don't have to shoot your ordinance, 3 heavy bolters works just fine.

Posted By Will on 10/11/2007 11:12 AM
I won the first game with my IG army. You don't have to shoot your ordinance, 3 heavy bolters works just fine.

Basilisk's and deep strikeing veterans do not have 3 HB's

I didn't even bother taking my basilisk for 2500 points. Odds are with that many points there will be plenty of fast movers to take out your barrage weapons. I agree that it does suck for your deep strikers, but those vets paid off in the second game.

Well I finished 3rd at orcon. The only reason that I did not go 3-0 was because I made a stupid deployment mistake. I was about 20-1. Last year my record with IG was about 54-5-3 or there abouts with this list and it proved to be pretty successful. This year I have not been playing much just cause I feel the game is a little broken but I have noticed that with the newer codices it seems to be getting a little better.

Good advice in here VOX Casters suck.
Officers cover 3.14 square feet of the table. No matter what you usually need two, thats 6.25 square feet. Thats about 25% of the table.

Guard suck at everything unless they do it in mass numbers. So if you want shooty go all out. If you want infantry go all out. "Balanced" guard lists get butcered all the time. Im going off the top of my head here so It might not be exactly 2000 probably around 1996 or so. Ive just about memorized this list.

Roughly 2000 points
about 149 models

HQ
HSO, 1vet w/Standard
3 HB, 3 LC, 3ML

Commissar Gaunt

Elite
5 Imperial knights. w/ pshycic hood

Troops
JO, 4 meltaguns
2 squads, identical, 1 ML each

50 conscripts

Hvy Support
Basilisk w/ indirect fire

Hvy wpn platoon
JO 4 meltas
9 Hvy Bolters

Hvy wpn Platoon
JO 4 Meltas (thinking about changing to 4 plasmas and plasma pistol)
6 LC, 3 ML

Doctrines: Droop troops, hvy wpn platoons, close order drills, conscripts

people have looked at 9 LC and called it cheesy, the morons dont realize only about 4 will hit a turn. So its not too bad. Its funny when people with mech tau or eldar complain about LC, they dont realize that statistically Autocannons are more likely to hurt thier vehicle than LC. Oh well some people wont understand. From somone that has had success beating some of the toughest players in here including Darrian13 and Blackmoor, I think this list is fairly competetive. Although not as much as some other armies out there. Problem is it is very static and gets boring after a while.

Hmmm... Commissar Gaunt, eh? Tell me about him. What's he do for your army? (I have to buy an X-Mas present for my friend who plays IG, so I'm curious.)

"Imperial Knights" = Grey Knight Terminators?

You put him in the platoon of 50 conscripts, which makes them fearless. Now use them as a screen/net to trap somthing that will be caught up for at least 3 turns, if not the rest of the game.

How do your conscripts work? dont people just shift around them?  Shooting at softer targets, and assaulting softer targets?  It seems to me that while the concept is good, it is just too easy to avoid them.  However I might give them a try here in the near future.

Unless thier jump troops it's pretty hard to get around 50 conscripts who when spread out can cover half the board.

There are some good Guard builds. I just used a Mech Guard army to take the Garden City Ard Boyz semi-finals.

Being consistently successful with Guard requires significant redundancy and resiliency. Basically, you should almost never have a point-failure source in your army - a single unit that does something that no other unit can do. I say almost never, because my Ard Boyz list had three. It also was meched up, with enough chimeras and other armor that lined up in a row they took up almost 6' of table edge.

What was the list Cent?

BYE

Id like to see the list too Centurian

One of the problem with IG is that many of the units offer horrible point/toughness ratios. While the easily killable, yet cheap guardsman makes line squads a pain to chew through to get to the heavy/special, it also makes so many of the other options really good targets. HW squads, Stormtroopers, and Vets all feature high numbers of heavy/special firepower and nifty stuff, but the fact that they die so easy makes all those extras into a liability. The problem with DS troops in alpha is that they offer such good targets that they get shot first and Deepstrike is just a way to let them get one round of effect before they die.

I echo the sentiment that IG needs to go all one way. If you have a unit that is unique in it's capacity to do something, it's gonna get blown away because no IG unit is sufficiently tough to NOT get killed if the opponent really wants to. Similarly, offering a balanced mix of units just gives your opponent's guns all something to shoot at. Turning a sizeable fraction of your opponents guns mostly useless due to no worthwhile targets while offering the rest of the army too many targets to kill is very powerful, and it's something that most armies do by default. After all, nobody takes 'anti-infantry' weapons to kill power armor. It's just that IG has to actively use this advantage when so many others have to actively decide NOT to create target saturation.

A very good assessment, TheGrog, and probably the reason why, in my experience, you can either have a well-rounded IG army, or one that actually wins games, but never both.