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Orlanth wrote:High Elves are broken because the first strike rule allows them to void much of thev tactical flow of thegame. Charges are now largely irrelevant for most units, so High Elf play is dumbed down.

The only issue I have with this statement is that the striking first on the charge, while important is only one small piece of what the charge is really all about. Ignoring for now lances and other such charge bonuses, a big pieces is 'sticking' those enemy units in place- locking that engagement in so that a flank charge can come in, or the enemy battle line gets congested.

On another topic- on first review the Lions of Chrace look like the unit I'd expect to see a lot of now.

RZ

Red_Zeke wrote:On another topic- on first review the Lions of Chrace look like the unit I'd expect to see a lot of now.

Definitely the unit I'm most interested in, and yet I have not read a batrep where they were used or did anything of any note. I guess the speed of the tiranoc is still where it's at?

- Salvage

The thing with the lion chariots is, that they are just too expensive generally. If you've tried building helf armylists using the new book, you notice that pretty much everything costs an arm and a leg, and there is very little maneuvering room on which choices you can take (pointswise). I can see adding one badass chariot to the list now and then for fun & aesthetics, but I expect to see the familiar Tiranoc chariots far more often.

Lion chariots also suffer compared to the infantry. Consider that the chariot gives 6 S5 attacks and 1d6 impact for the same price as 9 swordmasters, who could potentially through 18 S5 attacks (though, realistically 12 on on a 6 wide frontage), suffer 9 wounds before being knocked out, and are not instantly obliterated by a cannon shot.

I don't think 4 characters is workable in 2000, either. It's too many points. The BSB is nice, but seems to eat up just a few too many points on 2000. I can see an archemage, mage, and noble or noble/prince, 2 mage, etc. OTOH, a mounted bsb w/GW ward phoenix and helm of fortune is pretty hawt.