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I never really understood how they justify the defiler being gigantic and only being AV12. I was stunned the first time I saw one at how big the bugger was. Then it has less armor plating than a considerably smaller Predator? That strikes me as odd.
Then again, didn't you used to be able to pay for 1 more AV on it? Maybe they forgot that when they put it in the new Codex.
As a side note, I want to see a giant Chaos Centipede made from ~20 defilers. Because giant centipedes are scary.

You used to be able to take Mutated Hull for 30pts and get +1 AV. It was a very nice option. It made Dreadnoughts and non-indirect Defilers much more viable.

Of course, just as common were people who put it on Predators for AV14(!) and parked them in terrain for Hull Down. Which was kind of sick.

So naturally, rather than changing what vehicles could take the upgrade, they just dumped it from the new codex.

My Defilers are pure conversions made primarily from Spawn action figures and plasticard, with GW weapons. A friend of mine who’s a kitbashing maniac made them for me when the codex came out (to heck with waiting 10 months until the official model came out), and they’re awesome. Even bigger than the official one.

One of the coolest conversions I’ve see of the official kit is a guy at Adepticon this year who had converted them into extremely tall humanoid bipedal robot things, with the legs from the kit used as both arms and as extended legs. They were sweet.

I have found in many games that your analysis of the defiler being one of the first things to die is quite correct. But if your oppponent is shooting at your defiler and not your other tanks/expensive infantry it has pretty much served its purpose. However in the few games where it has lasted past the first turn it tends not to die at all, while usually taking out a tank or a squad of marines... The configuration that i have found to work is to only keep the reaper autocannon for those situations where you are too far to assualt and too close to use the battlecannon, while the heavy flamer is replaced by a CCW.

I have found in many games that your analysis of the defiler being one of the first things to die is quite correct. But if your oppponent is shooting at your defiler and not your other tanks/expensive infantry it has pretty much served its purpose.

I don't buy this. It isn't actually more durable for its cost than whatever your opponent would have shot at instead, so where's the benefit?

Interesting topic.

I ran into a Chaos army with the 2 of everything principle at the Ard' Boyz.

2 defilers, 2 dreads, 2 plague marine squads in rhinos, 2 thousand sons squads in rhinos, 2 special characters, the only thing he had 1 of was a LR with a unit of termies.

Whole kit started in reserve, but everything came on in turn 2.

Shot all the vehicles dead/immobile by turn 3.

Oblits, marines, daemon princes are what is viable for Chaos. Chaos vehicle armies are the suck.

Nerf blade bit way too deep sadly.

Stelek wrote:Interesting topic.

I ran into a Chaos army with the 2 of everything principle at the Ard' Boyz.

2 defilers, 2 dreads, 2 plague marine squads in rhinos, 2 thousand sons squads in rhinos, 2 special characters, the only thing he had 1 of was a LR with a unit of termies.

Whole kit started in reserve, but everything came on in turn 2.

Shot all the vehicles dead/immobile by turn 3.

Oblits, marines, daemon princes are what is viable for Chaos. Chaos vehicle armies are the suck.

Nerf blade bit way too deep sadly.

I'm gonna have to (mostly) agree with you here.

The main differences are:

I don't think it bit TOO deeply. As a chaos player, I mourn the loss of my old chaos. Have no doubt about it. Truth is, though, they were WAY too characterhammer. Granted, there are a few things removed that shouldn't have been, and some of the "nerf" (Oblits with T4!) went too far, but I think some of the things got better to the point that it almost evened out.
I agree that it bit deeply, but not "too" deeply (almos, but not quite).

I'd like to add in that I still find Havocs to be a strong unit (unless you had them included with "marines." I wasn't sure) and I think Bikes can be a real force in shifting the balance of a game if you make them Tzeentch bikes and be sure to turbo boost EVERY turn they aren't in combat (except against DH Psycannons - Yuck). temies are prett nice, too, IMO and the Land Raider is a far better value with the 30 point reduction.

While Fabius still bites, the rest of the characters are FAR more viable options now, for those who are inclined to use them.

Eric

Havocs are fine. I think Oblits are better.

Bikes are very iffy unless you bring ALOT of them. Just like Termies. They are annoying, until there's 20 of them...then they are a threat.

LR is still not good until the vehicle rules are overhauled, in my view anyway. I'd rather have 3 oblits than 1 LR.

I think Abaddon is badass except they did not give him immunity to force weapons...only Kharne gets that. He'd be A-1 if he was immune. He's still really good, but...

I don't like any of the other choices, flavor reasons mostly. I like Fabius, he never really was good but his ability has been making a real pita of a undivided list.
It still is--and those rules of his aren't the complete suck now, they fixed 'em if ya ask me.