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Made in us
Rampaging Chaos Russ Driver





Madison Wisconsin

i'd still shoot them to the ground just because they are easier to kill than CSM's and easy VP's if the scenario permitts



[FONT="Times New Roman"]Those who fight monsters should take care that they never become one. For when you stand and look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you.[/FONT] 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

They can get blazed down by heavy bolters or assault cannons; stuff that doesn't work very well against my marines, but T4, Fearless, and a 5+ invulnerable aren't bad. And if I summon and immediately assault, you're not shooting them first.

I built the army to have 3-4 icons moving forward, which gives me flexibility in where they come out- both in terms of maximizing assault opportunities, and in minimizing exposure to guns and units that are bad matchups.

The only really bad situations for them are in Escalation (when I don't have a forward moving unit starting on the table), and against mech Eldar. Against mech Tau I've got enough guns to drop a transport or two and let the lessers go after the chewy insides. Against mech Eldar- if I get lucky and drop a transport early (which actualyl doesn't take that much luck against serpents), I can do the same thing. Otherwise- well, 104 isn't bad for hiding behind terrain and holding a quadrant. Or potentially shielding my havocs from assault for a turn, if terrain permits.


Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

I'm glad you were able to do well with your army, Mannahin. It speaks volumes of your skills.

We must play!

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

40kenthusiast wrote:My buddy, Player-A, played those Crons against you, and he was very complimentary about your list and play skill when he was describing his day later on. The way he told it, if the Deceiver hadn't scared off your DP you had him on ice. Kudos on your list's performance!


Thanks! I’d definitely like a rematch at some point. Any chance you guys are going to Baltimore or any other GTs this year?

Boss_Salvage wrote:Really for me it's the mobility that's key. My chaos are distressingly static, but the demons give me that bump into assault or onto an objective that's vital. And just between you and me ... My old demonettes used to win me games by rending apart land raiders / carnifex / whatever, but I think I prefer the new lesser demons for what I use them as. T4, 13 points and no FOC slot + the summon rules just really works out for my army more than T3, scatter and even more combat prowess would.

Congrats on the wins at Adepticon!


Thanks, Salvage!

For me I think it’s the ability to add more numbers at any one of multiple points that’s their best feature. No-scatter summoning also has some serious virtues despite the loss in terms of maximum potential threat range.

Stelek wrote:I'm glad you were able to do well with your army, Mannahin. It speaks volumes of your skills.

We must play!


Once upon a time there was a very similar challenge between Mauleed and JTS1486, back when JT used to run Tau in 3rd ed and Ed was unrelenting in his opinion that they stank on ice. They met up at a GT and the report was posted on here. I’m game if you are.

Any chance you might make it to Baltimore? That’s the GT I’m most likely to get to this year.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm not likely to get out to another big tournament this year, probably just finish my circuit in tenessee or florida. Between Adepticon and family mandated vacations my PTO gets distressingly short.

Any chance ya'all might come down to ATL for Toys for Tots or Exterminatus?

All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

40kenthusiast wrote:Between Adepticon and family mandated vacations my PTO gets distressingly short.


QFT.

40kenthusiast wrote:Any chance ya'all might come down to ATL for Toys for Tots or Exterminatus?


Maybe? I've heard nice things about Atlanta from a visiting/convention standpoint. Want to shoot me a couple of links? I'm posting in spare seconds during a busy day at work.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

I doubt I can make Baltimore this year. Ok, I probably could, but the timing sucks. I hate traveling cross country, and doing it in twice in the winter...ouch.

I wasn't aware we had a rivalry. I thought my rivalry was with Blackmoor, Darrian, and oh boy the list is long. lol

There's a few guys want to play me in Baltimore (ok and in new england, but odds of that are low) when I visit Philly...but I don't know where you are located.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

No rivalry. I just made the comparison because you did dump on my list a bit.

I’m in New Hampshire. I’ll be right outside Philly next weekend for The Colonial WH GT, and Baltimore looks likely, but I’m not sure if I’m going to get to any further 40k GTs this year.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

There's a 1500pt tournament coming up, and I'm trying to figure out a cut-down version of this list. The easiest way would be to lose the havocs and the damon prince. That's 350 even. But I'd like to use as many of my nice-looking models as possible, and the DP is pretty sweet.

How about something like this?

Prince w/Wings, Warp Time = 155
Sorc w/Flight, Mark of Slaanesh, lash, personal icon = 150

3 termies w/chainfist, heavy flamer, 2 x combi-plasma = 120
3 termies w/chainfist, heavy flamer, 2 x combi-plasma = 120

6 CSM w/icon, flamer, champ w/fist = 145
Rhino = 35
6 CSM w/icon, melta, champ w/fist = 150
Rhino = 35
8 lessers = 104

6 Raptors w/icon, 2xmelta, champ w/fist = 190

2 oblits = 150
2 oblits = 150

1494

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Hmmm, how do you beat hordes? Or mech Eldar?

Did you face either of those at Adepticon?

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

I did not face Eldar at adepticon. It's definitely a worry. I honestly don't think Chaos has the tools to beat triple holotank without substantial luck or simply playing the scenario better. Or fielding an army that's mostly giant squads of plague marines, which has zero appeal.

I faced horde orks twice in the team tourney- a low-score draw and a loss. Part of that was really poor rolls with the Lash (no successful casts game 1, one in game 4). Part of it was just snikrot. That bugger's insane.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/04/18 23:03:09


Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Snikrot is a master. I keep recommending him to the local ork players but they don't believe me.

I found against Eldar with runes I had a heck of a time using my thousand sons to generate additional anti-tank.

So, I push my squads out and keep hitting the vehicles with the oblits.

In 5th, the oblits just blow the crap outta the falcons. Unless they're shielded by seers, then you go back to ignoring them.

   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




mannahin, I'm assuming your dropping termies in. how has that worked for you? It seems like an interesting package to drop.

Also, the raptors seem a bit small. Since they're just marines, raptors have his annoying tendency IME to fold up and die...they either need a mark or numbers (or, preferably both) to make them really work.

I'd be tempted to take those points and convert them to maybe another squad of termies (If they are working for you) and convert that sorceror to another DP. It's more threats for your opponent to deal with, deflecting fire from other units. If not dealt with, it swings mightily as well as lashing fiercely.

what the mind consumes, it becomes: the omnivangelist...blog on games and game design

Just released: Rollopa! Dice wars meets Advance Wars meets Dynasty Warriors...on the tabletop

 
   
Made in us
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Hey Gamefiend, thanks for the feedback.

I like the little termie squads a lot. I always drop them. The plasma and heavy flamer can really be nasty on the drop, though usually an ideal target for one is not ideal for the other. I really like having two squads, because it gives me a 75% chance of having at least one on turn 2, and gives me the ability to either split them up or use them close together.

I really like the Sorcerer for the fact that he doesn’t get shot to death so easily when Lashing. The Prince has a regrettable tendency to die if he tries to use Lash for more than a couple of turns before going into HTH, which is part of why I gave him Warp Time in this list. My Sorc model’s also pretty nice, and adds more (I think) to my painting scores and comp (if there is any) than doubling up on princes.

I think the Raptors are probably a bit overpriced at this points level. They’re mostly in for looks, and the fact that they give me another fast-moving Icon going forward. I think maybe I should drop them in 1500 for more guns. Termies could be a cool option if I had the models painted, though I think I need a little more ranged punch.

Maybe something like:

Prince w/Wings, Warp Time = 155
Sorc w/Flight, Mark of Slaanesh, lash, personal icon = 150

3 termies w/chainfist, heavy flamer, 2 x combi-plasma = 120
3 termies w/chainfist, heavy flamer, 2 x combi-plasma = 120

8 CSM w/icon, flamer, champ w/fist = 175
Rhino = 35
6 CSM w/icon, melta = 110
Rhino = 35
8 lessers = 104

7 havocs (105) w/4 ML (80), icon = 195
2 oblits = 150
2 oblits = 150

1499

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Dropping the Lesser Daemons for another unit of Termies would significantly improve the army.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Another identical squad would fit neatly into the points too, with the loss of the odd marine from the havocs. Nice.

I really like what the lessers bring to the table, though.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Mannahnin wrote:
I really like what the lessers bring to the table, though.

However, summoning them may be tricky even if you have two fast units (Rhinos).

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Chaos Russ Driver





Madison Wisconsin

yea go for the termies, they will outperform the lesser daemons. in fact i'd use the points from them to beef up the termie squads you have already for more bang



[FONT="Times New Roman"]Those who fight monsters should take care that they never become one. For when you stand and look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you.[/FONT] 
   
 
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