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palaeomerus wrote:The feedback system won't get you your money back and apparently lots of people on ebay sell a bunch of small stuff, rip somebody off on something relatively big and then start a new account.

And wrapping ten or so figs "well" is about three minutes work at most assuming you have opposable thumbs. It's less when the stuff is already in a box or blister. The item really ought to be ready to ship just as soon as you put it on e-bay for sale.
.

Sorry but this just isnt true in the case of painted miniatures, especially when selling a squad or platoons worth.

And again, feedback is feedback. People dont build up a big rep on ebay only to throw it away for chump change. if a seller has 200+ positive feedback they are pretty trustable, this is coming from somone with over 600 transactions on ebay and is a power seller who has had his fair share of scams attempted at him.

palaeomerus wrote:
BTW I got ripped off by a guy in Canada who was selling a VOID 1.1 box through an e-bay store. I left bad feedback. His rep is like totally ruined now with 3% bad feedback and all he got for it was $50. Sucker! I really took him for a ride! He didn't know who he was messin' with!

3% neg feedback is actually considered pretty high on ebay, anything below 97%, especially if they recieved it as the seller, tends to make me suspicious. The only problem I find is buyers feedback is also thrown into the same category which sucks because i've had a couple crappy sellers leave counter feedback for me because I was unimpressed with their service.

I re-organized/consolidated the wiki article on this subject to make it flow a little better instead of a big list of bullet-points, and I added a few of my own nuggets of advice.

Mainly, I talked about the time of week/day to start/end your auction (since that wasn't covered) and my feelings about charging extra on the 'handling' charge (I'm for it).


Check it out here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/A_Guide_to_Selling_Miniatures_on_Ebay

HF wrote:

Sorry but this just isnt true in the case of painted miniatures, especially when selling a squad or platoons worth.

Yes it is. A platoon is around forty figs so you are all the way up to twelve minutes now. I've shipped stuff. Tissue paper + bubble wrap + tape doesn't take very long for each figure then you wrap all of them in foam(sort of roll them up in it and put that in bubble wrap in the box it goes with crumpled paper to brace the corners. It works fine and doesn't take very long. I've shipped stuff back home that I bought and painted while traveling. Packing is not really worth big $ nor is it some obscure artisans that justifies big $.

HF wrote:

And again, feedback is feedback. People dont build up a big rep on ebay only to throw it away for chump change. if a seller has 200+ positive feedback they are pretty trustable, this is coming from somone with over 600 transactions on ebay and is a power seller who has had his fair share of scams attempted at him.

That's a wonderful platitude but not really worth much ultimately. And people DO build up a rep on small stuff and then chuck it for a big score and then make a new account to do the whole thing over again. Books have been written about the e-bay scammers and how they operate. Nor do scammers avoid figurines as small potatoes. Some even sell fake sketches of comic arstists software boxes etc. What a scammer considers a big score varies but it does occur and e-bay and their feedback system do nothing really to prevent it.

HF wrote:
3% neg feedback is actually considered pretty high on ebay, anything below 97%, especially if they recieved it as the seller, tends to make me suspicious. The only problem I find is buyers feedback is also thrown into the same category which sucks because i've had a couple crappy sellers leave counter feedback for me because I was unimpressed with their service.

Yeah. Like I said before. Feedback really isn't much of a defense against anything and really doesn't inhibit much bad behavior or even indicate bad behavior. It's not much of trustwarthy barometer of anything. Good people have undeserved bad feedback and bad people have great feedback until they can cash in on that trust and then $ trumps rep because rep can be built up again under a different name or store selling more nicknacks.

I hate to say this, but if you really don't like eBay, don't use it. I mean, I think he's tried to make some reasonable replies to your concerns, but you're clearly perturbed by it. It's a marketplace. there is some risk. There are a few mechanisms for minimizing or insuring that risk, but sometimes bad stuff happens.

So, consider us all aware that you find:
1) Handling charges outrageous.
2) eBay full of scammers.

Can we avoid a giant thread about the evils of ebay now?

palaeomerus wrote:



Yes it is. A platoon is around forty figs so you are all the way up to twelve minutes now. I've shipped stuff. Tissue paper + bubble wrap + tape doesn't take very long for each figure then you wrap all of them in foam(sort of roll them up in it and put that in bubble wrap in the box it goes with crumpled paper to brace the corners. It works fine and doesn't take very long. I've shipped stuff back home that I bought and painted while traveling. Packing is not really worth big $ nor is it some obscure artisans that justifies big $.

you pack painted minis in tissue paper? wow, just wow.

adding a 5 dollar surplus to your shipping charges for the time it takes you to go out buy the boxes, pack the items, fill out the customs forms and take them to the post office is far from unreasonable, especially for people who time is an issue.

HF wrote:
That's a wonderful platitude but not really worth much ultimately. And people DO build up a rep on small stuff and then chuck it for a big score and then make a new account to do the whole thing over again. Books have been written about the e-bay scammers and how they operate. Nor do scammers avoid figurines as small potatoes. Some even sell fake sketches of comic arstists software boxes etc. What a scammer considers a big score varies but it does occur and e-bay and their feedback system do nothing really to prevent it.

actually the kind of people that use small sales and then turn to scamming generally only have around 10 - 20 feedback. somone with 300+ transactions with a high ratio of positive feedback isn't going to throw that away for 50 bucks.

You also do realise that Paypal pretty much insures transactions under 400 dollars for buyers to the point of completely disregarding the sellers input unless they have registered post? If a buyer wants to claim that the seller didnt send the item, and the seller doesn't have a registered postal document saying he did, the buyer WILL get their money back, regardless of the truth.

HF wrote:
Yeah. Like I said before. Feedback really isn't much of a defense against anything and really doesn't inhibit much bad behavior or even indicate bad behavior. It's not much of trustwarthy barometer of anything. Good people have undeserved bad feedback and bad people have great feedback until they can cash in on that trust and then $ trumps rep because rep can be built up again under a different name or store selling more nicknacks.

Yea, you're right, all us ebay sellers with good reps are actually just waiting for YOU, Palaeomerus to buy our stuff so we can overcharge you for shipping and then not send you the item and laugh manically at our annual supervillain conference at mount doom at your pitiful negative feedback.

Seriously your attitudes towards ebay is pretty paranoid and buyer oriented. There has to be an equilibrium, and as somone who consistently buys and sells on ebay I think its reasonably well maintained.

Ozymandias wrote:Generally, ebay seems to be "Buyer Beware". I don't think you have much recourse as a buyer to hold the seller to anything. That's why the feedback is so important, the community judges the seller. I personally don't buy anything from a seller with less than 99% rating and frequently see many sellers with 100% ratings and thousands of transactions.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Personally I am slightly suspicious of any seller with hundreds of 5 star transactions. From my experience on eBay and Amazon Marketplace, I have got bad feedback from a buyer losing an auction, and because the person who bought the item couldn't test it as it was a gift.

It's practically a miracle to do that many trades and not run into someone unreasonable.

As for delivery confirmation, you have to balance the extra cost against the value of the item. In the UK, registered delivery is only 70p but it's £3.50 extra for overseas deliveries. This adds a lot to the postage which may discourage bidders. Don't bother offering it as a option because the bidder will often not take the option, and PayPal considers the seller responsible for delivery unless you have registered post, so you will be the loser when an item fails to arrive. (Or perhaps, "fails to arrive"...)

I don't have ebay experience, but some people do abuse the P&P. I've seen Battleforces for 32 pounds, with shipping well over 20. The best shipping price I've seen to continental Europe was 2,5 pounds, and both were air mail.

So it's not always about packaging, it's about crossing your fingers and hoping that whoever is buying didn't notice how much you're charging for shipping.

And it is fairly easy to scam someone on ebay, though it isn't a pit of evil. A friend of mine ordered a "Petrucci" special edition guitar, over 800 €, and he received it chipped. He sent it back, the guy repaired it and re-mailed it ASAP. I sincerely doubt that anyone who has acquired a high number of positive feedback will throw it all away for the meager sum of 50 euros, dollars etc.

So, legoburner was asking for an article on buying minis as well. I have a few thoughts that I figure i'll share, and see if we can accumulate some wisdom.

Buying Minis on Ebay

There are three reasons to shop for minis on warhammer: looking for a deal, looking for rare and oop stuff, and fetching a fully painted army and/or units. These things often overlap, but it's important to keep in mind why you're shopping on eBay, for example when buying OOP Metal Eldar Jetbikes, you won't ever find a deal on eBay. Since they're annoyingly rare, however, it's one of the few places you'll ever find them for sale.

Looking for Deals

this is why most people shop on eBay: to get some of that dirt cheap internet sales all the kids are talking about. At any given point there are literally thousands of GW auctions, providing plenty of choice. The good news: there are some great deals to be had. The bad news: none of those deals involve NIB product.

eBay has an undeserved rep for hosting tons of dirt cheap auctions on brand new GW merchandise. Five years ago, this was more true, but with the elimination of Outrider discounts, the cracking down on discounting by US stores and webstores, and GW making it tougher to open a retail acount, new GW product tends to hover between 15-25% off of retail, once shipping is factored in!. "Polonius," I hear you say, "I can order anything off of TheWarStore for 20% and free shipping!" My response is to simply shrug my shoulders. I did a half hearted search on eBay for complete auctions for Tac squads, and the NIB squads sold for between $29-$34, after shipping.

The point is that eBay is not a really good place to grab NIB stuff. Bigger auctions, with multiple boxes and/or army deals, can be better deals, but in general the new stuff is simply too expensive.

So where are the deals?

There are some great deals to be had on eBay, but they involve large lots of used minis. With Superclean and some patience, all metal models and many plastic models can live again, despite the hideous paint job of the previous owner. I've had Falcons with literally three layers of paint clean up nice and neat. Keep in mind that many plastic multi part models can be poorly assembled, which is far more difficult to fix then a bad paint job.

When buying used lots, research for a long time before you buy. Nearly everything comes up pretty often, and a little patience can save you a lot of money. Add up, in your mind, what you would pay for each item in a lot. Don't be afraid to value models at little to nothing if you don't want them. If you can resell any models from the lot, either to friends or back on eBay, include the projected sale price. Once you price out a lot, place your bid and walk away. There are many schools of thought on bid sniping, but my approach is simple. I make an offer, based on what I'd pay for the lot. If somebody is willing to go 50 cents higher, then I have to assume they'd go 5 dollars higher, and I let them walk with it.

As I alluded to above, a great way to build a big collection and bitz bin is to buy lots. Don't be afraid to drop $50-$300 on giant boxes of stuff. Salvage some, keep the best, and re-sell the rest. Between eBay and Bartertown, I bought giant lots and sold the excess and I ended up with more money and 4000pts of eldar. It's a fair amount of work, but If you enjoy wheelling and dealing, it's a lot of fun. (To be fair, I fell into one of the greatest GW opportunites of my life. A guy on B-town wanted to liquidated, and was travelling near where I live. I was able to get a drop off, save on shipping, and buy a huge lot of 2nd ed stuff for a few hundred bucks. The lesson: be on the lookout for good business opportunities.)

One final note: eBay is a good place to find big lots of good used stuff, but it's not the only place. Bartertown has a rep for people putting ridiculous price tags on marginal product, but there are some deals to be had. Local message boards are a good place to find out who is selling their army, and Dakka has a swap shop right here.

Buying Rare and OOP GW

Ebay isn't just the biggest game in town for this stuff, it's pretty much the only game. Wether it's OOP harlequins or NIB Gamesday minis, eBay has it. There's not much to talk about with regards to it. If you're a collector, you know what you want, and you know what you're willing to spend. Have fun, and try to keep the spending reasonable.

Important Note: Dupers exist, and they sell on eBay. For OOP stuff that's relatively common (praetorians, 2nd edition troops, etc.) most of the stuff is probably legit. The rarer a model, however, the more likely it's not a bona fide. There's a funny story about how there have been Sgt. Centurius models sold on eBay then were ever produced. I don't know if it's true, but it's certainly possible. If you really want a model and dont' care if it's original, then bid away. If you want to make sure it's real, only bid on stuff that comes with original packaging.

Buying Painted Minis

The hobby is full of folks who don't like to paint, and ebay is full of painted armies. If you want to play right away, it's a good place to get painted models for less than retail on new models. Shop around, ask for plenty of pictures, and buy the insurance when you ship it. It might not be exactly what you want, but it'll be a lot cheaper than hiring a service.

The question that I have is, as far as painted mini's go, do well painted vehicles generally sell for more than a well painted figure?

Polonius wrote:I hate to say this, but if you really don't like eBay, don't use it. I mean, I think he's tried to make some reasonable replies to your concerns, but you're clearly perturbed by it. It's a marketplace. there is some risk. There are a few mechanisms for minimizing or insuring that risk, but sometimes bad stuff happens.

So, consider us all aware that you find:
1) Handling charges outrageous.
2) eBay full of scammers.

Can we avoid a giant thread about the evils of ebay now?

What is supposed to be reasonable about saying that feedback just works (when it doesn't) and "packing is hard like rocket science dude!" ?

" It's a marketplace. there is some risk. There are a few mechanisms for minimizing or insuring that risk, but sometimes bad stuff happens. "

That seems like ebay in a nutshell to me. It acknowledges the risk involved nicely.

palaeomerus wrote:



Yes it is. A platoon is around forty figs so you are all the way up to twelve minutes now. I've shipped stuff. Tissue paper + bubble wrap + tape doesn't take very long for each figure then you wrap all of them in foam(sort of roll them up in it and put that in bubble wrap in the box it goes with crumpled paper to brace the corners. It works fine and doesn't take very long. I've shipped stuff back home that I bought and painted while traveling. Packing is not really worth big $ nor is it some obscure artisans that justifies big $.

HF wrote:

you pack painted minis in tissue paper? wow, just wow.

I believe I said " Tissue paper + bubble wrap + tape " and added " wrap all of them in foam" then added " put that in bubble wrap and pad the corners of the box with crumpled packing paper".

It seems you felt the need to truncate that to "tissue paper" for a really lame gotcha. Lol n' stuff.

HF wrote:

adding a 5 dollar surplus to your shipping charges for the time it takes you to go out buy the boxes, pack the items, fill out the customs forms and take them to the post office is far from unreasonable, especially for people who time is an issue.

Uh huh. Sure. Whatever. Three minitues a squad.

HF wrote:

actually the kind of people that use small sales and then turn to scamming generally only have around 10 - 20 feedback. somone with 300+ transactions with a high ratio of positive feedback isn't going to throw that away for 50 bucks.

Actually This guy had over 250 transactions and my negative feedback had almost no impact on his rating. Actually he ripped me for $50 and posiibly others for all I know. Where do you get all these scamming rules that the scammers seem to not actually follow?

HF wrote:
You also do realise that Paypal pretty much insures transactions under 400 dollars for buyers to the point of completely disregarding the sellers input unless they have registered post?

Paypal actually said there was nothing they could do for me.

HF wrote:

If a buyer wants to claim that the seller didnt send the item, and the seller doesn't have a registered postal document saying he did, the buyer WILL get their money back, regardless of the truth.

Uh huh.

HF wrote:
Yea, you're right, all us ebay sellers with good reps are actually just waiting for YOU, Palaeomerus to buy our stuff so we can overcharge you for shipping and then not send you the item and laugh manically at our annual supervillain conference at mount doom at your pitiful negative feedback.

Yeah. I 'cause said that n' stuff. Giggle.

HF wrote:

Seriously your attitudes towards ebay is pretty paranoid and buyer oriented.

Yeah. Imagine that, me being a buyer who was burned and found out how useless the protections are. Why, it's practically a non-sequitor.

HF wrote:
There has to be an equilibrium, and as somone who consistently buys and sells on ebay I think its reasonably well maintained.

Obviously I disagree on the reasonably maintained part. I'm not saying everyone is a thief but beither is everyone honest. High shipping costs are still high shipping costs however they are rationalized and feedback isn't really worth much as means of consumer defense.

I'm not sure what to do with a call for equilibirum. I'm just reporting my experiences in the face of someone naysaying them with boiler plate faq notes that did not materialize in real life. It seems kind of strange to hear a demand that my experience conform to some aesthetic principle of balance given the circumstances.

I'm not going to demand that you cease being comfortable with ebay but cleaerly I'm not comfortable with ebay and won't become more comfortable with it due to a series of the same old stuff I heard BEFORE I was ripped off.

Im a chipper young kid wanting to find out information on how to buy and sell used minis, I open the thread only to discover... a bunch of dudes arguing.

skavenfreak wrote:Im a chipper young kid wanting to find out information on how to buy and sell used minis, I open the thread only to discover... a bunch of dudes arguing.

Welcome to the internet. We hope you have a pleasant stay.

That comment made my day. I thank you for that

You also discovered a lot of good advice.

I guess I should have put some sort of quotation around my first post, It was supposed to sound like a narrative of sorts. I dont like ebay, I stick with bartertown.

Any flaw of eBay that Bartertown alleviates comes at a fairly substantial cost. Btown is generally cheaper in terms of fees and handling, but good deals are harder to find. Bad trades suffer virtually no recourse, although the rep system is a lot fairer for both parties. In general, Btown is like linux while eBay is like Windows. In theory it does everything ebay can, while being cheaper and more powerful. In practice it's a pain to use and requires a lot of time investment.

In fairness, Btown does let you actually trade minis, which is a nice thing the few times it comes through. You can also find some amazing bargains if you're willing to take a few risks. I use Btown, but it's more like the local resale shop I poke into to see if there's anything cool. I do most of my business on eBay.

I just like it because of personal preference. I never said ebay was bad, but I like to converse/haggle offer random trades to get what Im looking for at what I want to pay. By all means shop ebay, I just find Btown to be more my taste. Its Just one of those give it a try things, you might like it you might not.

Edited for my pitiful grammer

skavenfreak wrote:I just like it because of personal preference. I never said ebay was bad, but I like to converse/haggle offer random trades to get what Im looking for at what I want to pay. By all means shop ebay, I just find Btown to be more my taste. Its Just one of those give it a try things, you might like it you might not.

Edited for my pitiful grammer

I'm not slamming B-town. It frustrates me sometimes, but the good deals there are unbeatable. One big difference is that eBay lets the market set the price, while Btown relies far more on buyers and sellers determining their own value. If you know what you want, and what you'll buy/sell for, B-town can save you some fees.

palaeomerus wrote:


Actually This guy had over 250 transactions and my negative feedback had almost no impact on his rating. Actually he ripped me for $50 and posiibly others for all I know. Where do you get all these scamming rules that the scammers seem to not actually follow?

BTW I got ripped off by a guy in Canada who was selling a VOID 1.1 box through an e-bay store. I left bad feedback. His rep is like totally ruined now with 3% bad feedback and all he got for it was $50. Sucker! I really took him for a ride! He didn't know who he was messin' with!

which is it

so your one neg feedback on a 250+ transaction profile equates to three percent? wow you carry alot of wieght on e bay

Yeah. I 'cause said that n' stuff. Giggle.

dude, irony, please read up on it

Paypal actually said there was nothing they could do for me.

having been on both ends of the paypal claims dept numerous times i know that they handle things as per a described code, so either you aren't telling us everything about your case or you are just making it up to support it.

Uh huh. Sure. Whatever. Three minitues a squad.

Uh huh.

what is the point of these posts? E-noise?

One thing I am especially keen on getting for a 'buying from ebay' article is a list of the common search phrases you use when looking for stuff on ebay. I already know of (and use):
Warhammer,
warhamer,
40k,
white dwarf,
citadel

but what other search terms do you tend to use to find things?

use a site like http://www.fatfingers.co.uk/

it will search for all misspellings of stuff, so type in "warhammer" and it will show any listings for...

warhamner,warhanmer,warjammer,wargammer,warhsmmer,wsrhammer,warhammrr,warhammwr,
earhammer,qarhammer,warhimmer,wirhammer,uarhammer,warhammee,warhammmr,warhaamer,
warhhmmer,warrammer,waahammer,wwrhammer,warhammerr,warhammeer,warhammmer,warhammmer,
warhaammer,warhhammer,warrhammer,waarhammer,wwarhammer,warhamm er,warham mer,warha mmer,
warh ammer,war hammer,wa rhammer,w arhammer,warhammre,warhamemr,warhmamer,warahmmer,wahrammer,
wrahammer,awrhammer,warhamme,warhammr,warhamer,warhamer,warhmmer,warammer,wahammer,wrhammer,arhammer

which can turn up some bargains

The other thing to do if you have about a half hour is to simply bring up the GW category, and view everything ending in the next day. Sometimes there are some bargains.

Something else that just occured to me that might be common sense is to shop on eBay with GW's online store open in another window. If find it helps to make certain which edition that "Space Marine Codex" is when the seller doesn't specify, or see if random models are really what they are. Even honest people make mistakes when they don't know a game, and since a lot of the best deals seem to be of the "I am closing my game store" or "My bastard husband left me for a 13 year old" types, it often helps to see exactly what you are getting, and what the retail price would be.

Also, I find that concentrated Simple Green takes apart most multi part plastics pretty well with some soaking. It seems to dissolve or at least weaken super glue to the point it just pops apart. Sort of annoying on a tank with a bad paint job, but nice for those inevitable marines posed stabbing themselves in the junk.

I've soaked super-glued plastics in Simple Green for a week and nothing happened to the glue. (Nothing happened to the plastic, either, despite what I'd been told to expect. Maybe I got a wussy version somehow.)

Maybe they were polystyrene cemented rather than super glued.

I did specify that they were super-glued. The previous owner was a messy assembler, and it showed.

Many players use the terms super glue and glue interchangeably.

HF wrote:

palaeomerus wrote:



Yes it is. A platoon is around forty figs so you are all the way up to twelve minutes now. I've shipped stuff. Tissue paper + bubble wrap + tape doesn't take very long for each figure then you wrap all of them in foam(sort of roll them up in it and put that in bubble wrap in the box it goes with crumpled paper to brace the corners. It works fine and doesn't take very long. I've shipped stuff back home that I bought and painted while traveling. Packing is not really worth big $ nor is it some obscure artisans that justifies big $.

you pack painted minis in tissue paper? wow, just wow.

adding a 5 dollar surplus to your shipping charges for the time it takes you to go out buy the boxes, pack the items, fill out the customs forms and take them to the post office is far from unreasonable, especially for people who time is an issue.

HF wrote:
That's a wonderful platitude but not really worth much ultimately. And people DO build up a rep on small stuff and then chuck it for a big score and then make a new account to do the whole thing over again. Books have been written about the e-bay scammers and how they operate. Nor do scammers avoid figurines as small potatoes. Some even sell fake sketches of comic arstists software boxes etc. What a scammer considers a big score varies but it does occur and e-bay and their feedback system do nothing really to prevent it.

actually the kind of people that use small sales and then turn to scamming generally only have around 10 - 20 feedback. somone with 300+ transactions with a high ratio of positive feedback isn't going to throw that away for 50 bucks.

You also do realise that Paypal pretty much insures transactions under 400 dollars for buyers to the point of completely disregarding the sellers input unless they have registered post? If a buyer wants to claim that the seller didnt send the item, and the seller doesn't have a registered postal document saying he did, the buyer WILL get their money back, regardless of the truth.

HF wrote:
Yeah. Like I said before. Feedback really isn't much of a defense against anything and really doesn't inhibit much bad behavior or even indicate bad behavior. It's not much of trustwarthy barometer of anything. Good people have undeserved bad feedback and bad people have great feedback until they can cash in on that trust and then $ trumps rep because rep can be built up again under a different name or store selling more nicknacks.

Yea, you're right, all us ebay sellers with good reps are actually just waiting for YOU, Palaeomerus to buy our stuff so we can overcharge you for shipping and then not send you the item and laugh manically at our annual supervillain conference at mount doom at your pitiful negative feedback.

Seriously your attitudes towards ebay is pretty paranoid and buyer oriented. There has to be an equilibrium, and as somone who consistently buys and sells on ebay I think its reasonably well maintained.

just had to add this, came across some of HFs auctions on ebay and thought id delve deeper, for someone who was critical of other people packaging and defended his high p&p costs, his feedback states...

Badly packed, not sealed, items all broken and parts missing. Seller unhelpful . nickinox ( 60) 09-Apr-06 20:51
Reply by la1n74 (10-Apr-06 03:48):

Item was packed just fine, buyer wants to blame me for the australian postal
Follow-up by nickinox (10-Apr-06 11:51):

Tissue paper, an unsealed box, a few bits of padding is not "very well packed".

He also listed Pig Iron stuff as Forgeworld, changed his post on the Swap Shop to a goatse link when called on it, and was duly banned from Dakka. I think your point is well proven.