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Can anyone confirm this?

I can confirm that he is mistaken. My first instinct was what he said, but after going back and reading the rules again I found it not to be the case. The 'no spreading wounds around' rule clearly only applies to a group of models with the same equipment/stats. Players are always free to allocate the pre-save wounds around the unit as they see fit.


The multi-wound rules state:

"If the unit contains different models, first allocate the wounds suffered. Then take saves for identical models at the same time as normal.

Once you have determined the number of unsaved wounds suffered by a group of identical multiple-wound models, you must remove whole models as casualties where possible. Wounds may not be 'spread around' to avoid removing models."


If every model in your unit has different equipment/stats then you are free to allocate your wounds as you see fit.

Business as usual for Necrons. If only I could pick and choose which models had disruption fields. Then again, I guess that wouldn't even count as it doesn't change any stats.

Curse the immutability of Necrons!

So you're saying whenever a squad takes wounds the guy with the heavy weapon has to make a save? Or just when all models are wounded, like calling out a model now?

Wounds will be allocated to individual models. So, for example, if a Devastator squad of 6 men with 4 Heavy Bolters take 3 wounds. You would assign 2 of the wounds to bolter guys but the 3rd would have to go to one of the HB guys. You then roll his save separately.

For some units it is more harsh than Torrent.

Rbb wrote:So you're saying whenever a squad takes wounds the guy with the heavy weapon has to make a save? Or just when all models are wounded, like calling out a model now?

If there are enough wounds to cover every model in the unit, then yes, the heavy weapon would have to take a save all by his lonesome.

Wow,
Its bad enough 40k games can take forever and a day to play... now they will be on the same time scale as a game of BFG

I personally think this rule should
A: Be simplified
B: Be Removed

I can see rule nazis and cheese heads haveing a field day while the average player shakes his head in frustration.

yakface wrote:
I can confirm that he is mistaken. My first instinct was what he said, but after going back and reading the rules again I found it not to be the case. The 'no spreading wounds around' rule clearly only applies to a group of models with the same equipment/stats. Players are always free to allocate the pre-save wounds around the unit as they see fit.


The multi-wound rules state:

"If the unit contains different models, first allocate the wounds suffered. Then take saves for identical models at the same time as normal.

Once you have determined the number of unsaved wounds suffered by a group of identical multiple-wound models, you must remove whole models as casualties where possible. Wounds may not be 'spread around' to avoid removing models."


If every model in your unit has different equipment/stats then you are free to allocate your wounds as you see fit.

Guess I can let yak prove the point for me.

Necrons still have this kind of shenanigens, just with a unit most people don't run. Tomb Spyders and their little minions they can create.

Anyway, it's just the way of things. This is an exploitable rule. Players will exploit it.

Well jp400, this will be a bit easier to deal with for multi-armor save units, and in fact is pretty much what our group already does for simplicity.

How does it work for multiple toughnesses? Do you allocate hits instead of wounds, or still use majority?

Quistis84 wrote:can I just clarify something regarding allocating wounds on multiple-wound units.

What's been said applies only to the first time that unit is shot at. Any subsequent shooting, wounds are allocated to wounded models first.

e.g. I shoot the ork unit (or battlesuit unit) and wound 3 times (so 3 models each take a wound) My next unit shoots at them and causes 1 wound, this wound must be allocated to a model that already has a wound. Next unit shoots and wounds 5 times, models already wounded must take the extra wounds first, etc.

Also, any instant death wounds must be allocated to healthy models where possible, so if I shoot the unit with a lascannon, a whole model (one that hasn't taken any wounds) must die, unless they've all taken a wound.

Whew. That was almost bad news for me. It's good news now.

I hope we don't end up seeing much of this. It sounds like it will be painfully slow to resolve. Ugh.

As has been said, this just seems like a rule mechanic which doesn't address the complexity of some of the unit choices out there. Still, aside from a few select units (Bike Nobz, Crisis Suits, Tyranid Warriors) this rule won't really have that great of an impact in the game. I'm sure that people could come up with ways to make an army list incorporating this as part of their strategy, but at a tournament level it would slow the game down to the point that they would have trouble getting through their turns in the alloted time.

I'm not much of a tournament player, but this seems like it has enough weaknesses that it would be useful against some kinds of shooting, but it makes you waste points on dumb wargear and your models will still get hosed by instant death weaponry. Not only that, but it is the kind of behavior that will be really frowned upon in friendly play. After all who wants to have to create a spreadsheet to figure out which nob has how many wounds left. All in all, while there is some abuse potential with this, the wound allocation rules will overall make it so that the basic 1 wound infantryman will be better than he currently is in 4th ed.

Shield Drones dont actually have a rule sucking the heavy weapons onto them, so while yes you can allocate the single wounds onto them; if your opponent gets enough hits then the suits are going to start taking saves

Wehrkind has a very good point here.
In many ways allocating the wounds before saves works fairly easily, but what about units with multiple toughness values?
I know these are pretty rare, but do you allocate hits before rolling to wound - and in this case does the model thats been hit have to take a save against the weapon that hit him?

This could get really complex with different strengths and AP's of weapons against units like Inquisitors (for example) who have different toughnesses and saves.

While there are a couple of places where this will be an issue, for the most part it isn't going to come up much in game. Most squads have "normal" guys, a sargent type, and possibly a heavy/special weapon. So there will rarely be more than 3 different target types.

With the exception of special characters attached to units. Say a Herald on Khorne on a Juggernaught attached to some blood letters. Came up yesterday, and while we just started allocating hits, it was only because it seemed more fair, not because it was the rule as we understood it (4th requires majority toughness as I recall.)

Wehrkind wrote:With the exception of special characters attached to units. Say a Herald on Khorne on a Juggernaught attached to some blood letters. Came up yesterday, and while we just started allocating hits, it was only because it seemed more fair, not because it was the rule as we understood it (4th requires majority toughness as I recall.)

I would think that differing toughness or save score would count as a differently equipped model. You allocate wounds normally and the models with different T/S are treated as their own group.

Also, it would seem that most models with a different Toughness or Save score ALSO have different equipment anyway and would fall under the stated wound allocation rules already.

yes?