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I suppose with the new "running" rule, the range of melta weaponry isnt really so much of a hindrance, you just give up turn 1 tank busting.


I've always wanted to use faithful units of Retributers but the exorcists have always been too important. I'll have to explore this a bit more.

3 Exorcists, Jump Cannoness w/ the Book and Eviserator (or two), and then as many Sisters in Troops as you can cram, with VSS Eviserators and Meltas/Heavy Flamers.

I've played against Sisters for so long, especially when I started 40k, that I'd like to think I have a handle on the army. They're pretty damn good in 4th with the Mech List, and with 5th you get about the same kind of mobility but instead of spending points on Rhinos you can just buy more Sisters because of the Run rule.

The problem with walking sisters is that a good chunk of the time they'll never get to shoot anything. Sure, they'll be hard to whittle down in hth, but they won't be winning many combats either, or if they do, not by much.

The rhino is crucial for making sure you control the order of engagement.

mauleed wrote:The problem with walking sisters is that a good chunk of the time they'll never get to shoot anything. Sure, they'll be hard to whittle down in hth, but they won't be winning many combats either, or if they do, not by much.

The rhino is crucial for making sure you control the order of engagement.

90% of the time the Rhino's durability is used up in the one turn it has of Smoke; after that it's a fairly easy target.

Sisters with Run will have about the same engagement area as ones in a Rhino; you should be Rapid firing on turn 2. As far as Sister Tar Pits, you've got a hidden S6 Fist with a lot of bodies around it, and 2 Flying Cannoni to hop in where needed to end combats. Plus Sisters have Faith that can bust them up to S5 when necessary to start putting wounds on things in H2H.

I think Rhinos would do well for small specialist units like Dominions that can run up and pop 3-4 Flamers down, but for your average Sister just get as many rapid firing bolter shots as you can.

Perhaps.

Another thing to consider is that getting close with a rhino means you're running around with an (effectively) AV10 vehicle in assault range of the enemy. They can't kill it, but they can certainly get lucky and immobilize it.

But don't forget, after the rhino dumps it's cargo it can then go do other things. Lone transports can now contest enemy objectives, so have to all be hunted down and killed.

I don't know, I've played walking sisters pretty effectively. While rapid-fire is nice, it's certainly not a priority to run at the expense of shooting. 2 units of 18 girls gives you 32 bolter shots at 24" range.

The only time you need to advance is when your opponent is going to charge you next-turn and you're not already in rapid-fire range.

The main thing to remember is that you're playing a mass-oriented army. Don't spread out, force your opponent to deal with as many sisters at once as possible. There aren't a lot of units that can get into assault in the face of that many bolters, especially with the divine guidance possibility.

The real weakness of walking sisters isn't assault units, it's long-range shooting, and being able to run should mitigate that somewhat.


Also, don't forget, after the new marine codex is released (assuming it follows the costing from Dark/Blood Angels, and Chaos), Sisters will be stuck paying more for their rhinos than anyone else. It's a small thing, but it adds up. IF a 5th-ed rhino is deemed to be worth only 35 points, and you're paying 50 for yours, you might not be getting your money's worth.

mauleed wrote:Lone transports can now contest enemy objectives, so have to all be hunted down and killed.

This is something I didn't know. I really need to get down to the shop and read the book for myself, hopefully tomorrow.

Still, with a 4+ Cover save and AV11, you can be Penned and destroyed fairly easily. Granted the Sisters aren't losing much because there's no more entanglement now, but you're still taking wounds and the points spent on the Rhino just bought you a guaranteed 6" extra move. Depending on how the enemy deploys, this could be a turn 1 rapid fire if you get the 2" out of the door, but I wouldn't count on it given the new deployment method - You may be looking at situations where you need more than 1 turn of Rhino movement to get where you need to be on the table.

Another good inclusion especially with unit screening for that 4+ in 5th is immolaters with TL/HB and Blessed Ammunition for antihorde duty. Probably not worth it compared to the Rets or higher armor of the Exorcist but it's there.

As a bit of an OT I had this question, but it is related to the codex. The mini list inside the WH codex for WH adversaries is not tournament legal correct?

The special characters will shine now.

Specifically, The Pyrophant Judge of Salem Proctor, Inquisitor Lord Fyodor Karamazov.

I gave him his full titled respect because he will very easily earn that respect in 5th ed.

205 points for a ballistic skill 5, Strength 6, 4 wound, toughness 5, initiative 5, 3 attacks, leadeship 10, 2+/4+ armor save.

Master crafted powersword, inquisitorial mandate, multi melta (which can fire on the move...). Counts as a monstrous creature (!!), can choose whether to pass or fail any morale or pinning check he has to make, even if normally automatic. Friendly units within 12" may reroll failed morale or pinning checks.

His only drawback of the old "shoot the big bug" rule is now nullified due to 5th ed rules of screening.

I think of him as one super-uber terminator. 205 points is a pitance.

I will be taking him in every game from now on with my sisters in 5th ed. He just seems that spiffy.

The witch hunters circus may not be so odd any more. Well, at least some circus units.

A circus army would be fun to do. 9 penitents, 2 units of arcos, 1 unit of repentia, and zealots as troops all running across the field with seraphim support. That would be funny as hell..

Capt K

Zealots are off the official list, fyi.

I know, but in a friendly game it's fine. Besides, nobody would realistically take a weird list like that to a GT anyways.

Capt K

Stelek wrote:Zealots are off the official list, fyi.

Beef would.

Repentia back up footslogging sisters may end up pretty scary. Depends on how many bite it due to targeted melee attacks.

Footsloggers need some kind of melee backup, I'm just not sure what. Else you'll have big units of power armor sitting there plinking away with S3 attacks in CC supported by 2 S6 or 3 S3 power weapon hits. Repentia and Engines finally have some mobility and toughness, but it may not be enough.

Death Cult? Seraphim? GKs? Or just the old reliable Chainsaw Cannoness?

I posted a thread on the "freak" units of the Witch Hunter Codex about a month ago. The general opinion was even with the changes, most were still to expensive and fragile to be worth it.

Penitent Engines: Still blow up on a 4+ and still cost 80 points!
Repentia: Still get beaten by every other assault unit in the game. Heck, I think orgyns can actually beat them. Hitting last with with t3 and a 4+ save does not work. While they will be great againt tank heavy armies, they just will probably be overkill and would not survive any shooting anyway.
Arcos: Maybe, but still expensive and they kill themselves.

I'm thinking that celestians might start to be useful again. With preferred enemy now granting rerolls to hit, a max squad with an eviscerator might actually do something. And Death Cultist were always useful and now they are are even better.

I've been playing mech sisters for four years now, and I've two major concerns.

1. A squad of hiding and jumping seraphim with nearby jump pack canonness has almost always been the combo that wins the game for me in turn 4 or 5. Under 5th, the Seras will receive so much early turn shooting that they will be a point sink liability.

2. A solo jump packing canonness will now have to consume faith every turn (to get the inv save) that there won't be enough faith left for divine guidance.

However, one tactic that might work in 5th with sisters is one that relies on the fact that now a squad must continue fighting against its original foe until it is defeated. I wonder if it would work to race a jumping canoness (with mantle and cloak) forward into assault, with a running unit of sisters behind. The opponent must now continue fighting against the 2+ inv save canonness turn after turn until she dies while the later arriving unit can arrive and attack the other unit with no worries about retaliation.

This could also work with a mobile unit of celestians + attached canoness with litanies, and would work best if it could charge 2 units. They would have one turn of guaranteed 3+ inv save and should be able to tarpit these two original enemy unit for at least two rounds (the unit would then be small enough to get in a second turn of inv via faith); meanwhile later arriving units would be able to attack these trapped units with impunity.

Hey,

New user, long time SOB collector. Just curious if any models are being removed/discontinued from 5th edition?

Did I hear right that zealots are out? What's the difference between them and frateris militia? I put an ASSload of work into my zealots, and hope to use them in some way.

Frateris militia were the CA2002 'men in large numbers' unit.

Zealots were the WD addon to the WH codex, and were also a 'men in large numbers' unit.

Both are now illegal to use, but I'm sure you could get your friends to let you play them.

Many Sisters players disdained their use anyway...

Stelek wrote:Well mech sisters run up and vaporize a unit.

Horde sisters run up and vaporize a unit.

You can melee down the mech sisters, but not horde sisters.

You can shoot the mech sisters out of their transports and spam them with lots of fire, but against horde sisters every shot you've got is going into an 11 point model..and when there are 20 of them, it gets tedious.

If you think of the horde Nuns with Guns as the best short range firefight troops in the game....coupled with IG stats and CC capability, marine power armor, tyranid synapse, and ork numbers...well, you'll be spot on.

First let me say, you really do have to respect foot sisters. Long before we had rhinos for a while, foot was the way to go. And a wall of powerarmored faithful sisters is a real bitch to deal with.

But your wrong. You can melee down horde sisters much easier than mech sisters. Basic fact of foot sisters is you for the most part are at the mercy of otehr folks determining the time and place. Mech sisters choose their battles much better than foot sisters. You can tie up foot sisters faster than mech ones.

Mech sisters have never needed CC capability. Beyond a bait cananoness who can do HTH, I have never once needed close combat capability. You reach out and touch someone with exorcists.

Generally speaking, I never worry about rhinos getting shot out from under me. Everyone has a choice between excorists and rhinos. And its a damned hard choice....because one or the otehr ruins your day.

mauleed wrote:The problem with walking sisters is that a good chunk of the time they'll never get to shoot anything. Sure, they'll be hard to whittle down in hth, but they won't be winning many combats either, or if they do, not by much.

The rhino is crucial for making sure you control the order of engagement.

Mech sisters spend almost as much time not shooting, so thats a non arguement.

But yeah, mech sisters control the engagement, foot sisters do not.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:

90% of the time the Rhino's durability is used up in the one turn it has of Smoke; after that it's a fairly easy target.

No. Terran helps. You dont always have to pop smoke turn two.

Sisters with Run will have about the same engagement area as ones in a Rhino; you should be Rapid firing on turn 2. As far as Sister Tar Pits, you've got a hidden S6 Fist with a lot of bodies around it, and 2 Flying Cannoni to hop in where needed to end combats. Plus Sisters have Faith that can bust them up to S5 when necessary to start putting wounds on things in H2H.

Uhm, no.

Mech sisters move 12" on turn 1. Turn two they move 12" drop and spray. 24" easy, plus 12" rapid fire range, but more like 8" flamer range.

foot sisters move 6", then run....a d6"...call it 3.5 on average. Then turn two move 6" and then rapid fire 12".

No contest that mech sisters have the greater threat range. Its not even close.

Some days foot sisters will move and fleet 6". Some days its going to be 1".

Anyone using the exorcists know when you NEED it, when you roll a d6, you'll roll low.

When were zealots made illegal?

Last year?

Sometime around jesus' birth I believe.

Been a while

Indeed. I haven't really been playing that much for about the last 2-3 year, mostly the occasional game at a friends house.

Is there any paticular reason they are illegal?, or is it simply because they were just some add-on in a WD article?

Eh, I have no idea.

I think they're tournament illegal, due to the fact they were a WD article (correct me if they weren't)

They're no longer in the new dex so GW won't have you using them anyway. As far as friendlies go, go for it

Battlekai wrote:Eh, I have no idea.

I think they're tournament illegal, due to the fact they were a WD article (correct me if they weren't)

They're no longer in the new dex so GW won't have you using them anyway. As far as friendlies go, go for it

Indeed. Non tourney legal, but still a legal list for friendly games.

As to foot vs. mech threat range, it is worth keeping in mind that bolters still fire 24" if the unit doesn't move. With the extra girls a rhino costs, you can get 4-6 extra shots at 24".
Not saying it is better, just that the threat is different.

Wehrkind wrote:As to foot vs. mech threat range, it is worth keeping in mind that bolters still fire 24" if the unit doesn't move. With the extra girls a rhino costs, you can get 4-6 extra shots at 24".
Not saying it is better, just that the threat is different.

But half the effectiveness. Your losing the rapid fire for that. Which is where they shine.

*shrug*

I don't think many people have picked up on this, but Exorcists are actually worse at killing tanks than they were in the last edition, at least if I have the rules correct. If an Exorcist shoots an AV 14 vehicle and scores a 6, it gets +1 but also -2, for a net -1 and another 6 required to kill. Essentially, they lose their auto-pen, unless I'm making a serious error.