Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

zmc wrote:I like the concept you're working with here Stelek.

Have you put any more thought into the combo EML/SC instead of SL/SC? With the removal of partials from blast weapons in 5th I find I'm getting consistently more hits on average than what I would get from the 4-shot BS3 SL. The S4/AP4 might not hit as hard but that extra bit of AP can come in handy for certain situations.

I've thought on it but haven't had a chance to test it out. I hope to do so this month.

Traskel wrote:Any mobile heavy flamer is absolutely going to ruin a squad of 3 vypers, even with holo-fields - eldar jetbike squads with destructor locks for example. A drop podding dread, the new space marine land raider, the new space marine dread, etc. all ruin the design. Even granted the fact that you save from cover half the time, don't templates still get 2 hits on your open topped vehicle (or is that changed in v5?).

It seems like you're looking at the list as doing well against what is considered strong anti-tank in a 4th edition environment.

That list seems extremely weak for 2000 points. If an enemy stops your prisms from shooting (it shouldn't be hard to simply glance them) then they can focus the rest of their firepower on your extremely weak units. Couple that with the vehicle squadron rules, and I don't think this list is remotely viable.

Sure I suppose a mobile heavy flamer will own face. There are not alot of them, and frankly they don't scare me much.

Templates don't 2 hit you.

Actually I've been looking at the list as doing well in 5th edition. Most FLGS don't run heavy anti-tank, mine does. You know, not 3 lascannons but 6 and a bevy of other weapons to give you plenty of firepower at range.

It only seems weak. Most people theoryhammer it sucks without playing it a few times, and that's why I usually ignore them.

Stelek wrote:

Darrian13 wrote:Which 9 units are those? I see 3 min sized units of bikes that can move 24 and 2 farseers that can move 24.

Please bring 1750 of this army to Vegas.

Darrian

Please read the rulebook before making snide comments.

It's been explained elsewhere on the site, so you can go dig it up.

He isn't making snide comments, he's challenging you to a fight. You are the one who make snide comments, you make them constantly. You always talk about how much smarter you are than everyone else but you are just as irrational as the next guy. You ignore quality information constantly to further your own positions fighting to prove you are right to the bitter end. If you behave in real life like the way you do on the internet I can see why you have 6 million posts. In real life people don't have to pay attention to you, you can't hijack every conversation that people are having like you can on the internets.

Stelek wrote:Not really. It's more like saying you're a forum troll/twit and I can't be bothered today.

I'd rather vacuum than respond to your nonsense.

OMG Stelek(that's right STELEK) just called Blackmoor a forum troll. WOW. That is simply outrageous.

On top of that you clearly are validating Blackmoors previous post about Stelek Speak.

Stelek makes me want to learn how to haxor so I can just spend my day banning him from Dakka. Of course he would just infest another 40K site but since I never waste any time reading any of those sites It would work for me.

Actually, a snide comment is this:

Putting another person down.

He belittled my army list.

He didn't challenge me, he made a fool of himself by making claims my army couldn't contest objectives with 'only' 3 jetbike units.

See, the fool part is not knowing the rules but acting like you do.

Since you don't seem to understand what trolling is:

'irrelevant messages'

"That is ok. I understand what you are saying.

That is Stelek speak for "You are right, and I am wrong, and I can't argue my point anymore."

Kind of like both your posts, but it's ok--bashing me is a right on Dakka, and it's only when I return the favor that things actually happen.

I've got a whole bunch of threads I'm discussing, so I'm sure you can troll 5-10 more times and no one will even notice...it is late in the States, after all, and most of the sites mods are asleep or at work. This is when the best trolls come out. Time for me to go to sleep, sadly enough.

@Stelek
actually I find this army list quite interesting.

but is it only viable at 2000pts? what elements could justifiably be removed for 1500pt games?

Gary wrote:@Stelek
actually I find this army list quite interesting.

but is it only viable at 2000pts? what elements could justifiably be removed for 1500pt games?

None I suspect. This list relies heavily on redundancy, which can not be achieved in smaller games. As well, I think that the firepower from vehicles will drop to anemic levels vs MEQ if you drop one fireprism and one squadron of vypers.

I have to agree that something like a podding dreadnought would gut a vyper squadron badly - assault cannon + heavy flamer = world of hurt.

keezus,
Yeah, but then you get into the metagame (which may or may not exist at all) and how often do you see a podding dread?

As I see it, it looks like an interesting list that is different enough that it will throw an average opponent off their game the first time they play. The more you play a list like that, the easier it gets to beat. As a one off local tournament list, it's certainly interesting. And with Eldar, you can really paint them to be pretty.

That said, as a regular competetive army, I just don't see it down well against most competition. I see the theory behind the build, but I'm not sold. Especially after reading through the 5ed rulebook at the GW store Sunday. I just think there'll be a lot of ways to deal with the threat presented here.

As a Theme army, it would be great - if you were a good painter.

To go down to 1500 points? Drop a prism and a vyper from each squadron.

That's where the list started originally.

Everyone seems latched onto the idea that using the prisms as cover is required.

It isn't. It's a neat trick, that's all.

Did you real call black moor a troll seriously dude.

And you've never belittled another person's army or idea's ?

Dude your the one trolling.

The Army is hindered by the Movement and the shooting.

It should do fine. Though there are bad parts like lack of Infantry.

Which one's are hte infantry i looked though and couldn't find it.(sorry I dont own a elder codex)

And you wonder why I mostly ignore your posts, ghostmaker.

Was that a personal attack I just read, Stelek????

have you considered packing two Shuriken Cannons on the vipers instead of scatters, and using the 180 points you save on more troops?

you are losing only 9 str 6 shots (and gaining 2 ap on the other 3) for almost double your troop choices/beefing then out more.

whitedragon wrote:Was that a personal attack I just read, Stelek????

No, it was a comment.

Yes I have.

Playtesting showed the only way to down the Vypers was by adding in more glancing hits.

So if I'm forced to sit at 24" instead of being able to range at 36", I will eat every last bolter shot.

Better to save the secondary armament for when the opponent moves towards you. Odds are by the time someone moves the 12" you've attritioned him down some, and you can survive the incoming rounds better.

when fielding the force, do you split the army in two, or does it concentrare on a flank as one?

I usually sit at max range on whatever I want to destroy, and try to keep heavy shooting elements from firing back at me. If that means sitting on a flank, that's fine. I have no problem sitting at 30" and pounding a dev squad to death and ignoring tacticals. Their overall ability to hurt me isn't as great...so they don't get their ticket punched.

Some people know how to defend against an army like this, placing their army in a triangle defense in a corner, but most do not.

sweet

A mate has some Eldar lying around at his place, i'l have to scrounge some off him to give this a go methinks

Why would a hwy flamer ruin the vypers, it will glance on 5 and penetrate on 6.. thats not a very big deal for the fact that you have to get into position against fast flyers. You get +1 on the damage table but no double hits or anything, so they are in pretty good shape there.

I still dont think its one of the better things you can have but its definently doable and can hurt quite a few lists pretty bad.

@Stelek

What model do you use to represent the Farseers on Jetbikes? I can only find Autarchs on jetbikes on the GW Website

You can google and convert them using instructions found on the net, or just green stuff a cloak and some eldar symbols...add a sword on the bike, and call it good.

Either way, it won't look like one really. The pose is just wrong.

aha, cheers man

There are people that use Vypers with a Farseer standing where the gun goes as a 'counts as', but with the new LOS rules coming up for 5E it makes it easy to see him.

I converted a farseer on jetbike just recently for my Saim Hann (had been using my old chieftain/kinsmen for too long and figured it was time for an update.)

Head/Right Arm (including staff) from 99060104120
Torso from 99060104123
Shining Spear Legs (any) and control panel + left arm from same
Shining Spear Banner Pole

Dremel, Green Stuff for filling/modeling and 2-3 hours for this simple conversion.

I also converted my warlocks on jetbikes for the bike council and can give details on that if anyone is interested.

i'm stuck on whether to give one of the Farseers Fortune + Doom or Fortune + Eldritches Storm

which would you take?

Both have their uses.

I use doom only because I find it amusing to re-roll 2+ to wound. lol

Where do you get off taking the high ground and calling anyone else an insulting troll? You are easily the biggest jerk on Dakka, Stelek.

I would love to see Blackmoor or Darrian crush you at the GT, I know them both and they are both good guys and fun to play against in addition to being very good. Most of what i see you post are insults and you have the most gratingly arrogant attitude. Try being nice for a change and you might actually find yourself with a friend or two which, if you act in real life as you do on the net, i can't imagine you have many of.

Don't let Stelek get you down Reece, he is just a sad little troll in Utah. Just keep on peddling.

BTW, I subscribe to your blog, very cool. Be careful riding through Mexico.

Darrian

Thanks Darrian, the trip has been pretty amazing so far, but i am seriosuly jonzing for some 40K. Kick some butt at the GT´s for the so cal guys!

@ Stelek: with the 5th edition rules you get a 4+ cover save with your vypers if the Fire prism 'shields' them. (right?) But when the vypers shoot at the enemies anti tank unit the get a cover save to, because it works both ways, right? There is a fire prism flying in front of them and it gives the enemy a 4+ cover save... Iam I right?

I want to use two vennom cannon carnifexes as a anti skimmer unit. With Vypers being open-topped its a good way to bring them down. If its also possible to deepstrike a twin linked devourer hive tyrant..jetbikes and vypers could be in a lot of trouble..

Carnifexes with a 2+ save and toughness 7 wont get a lot of wounds from scatter lasers/shuriken cannons and its possible that the Prism cannon shot will scatter a few times.

Can this work?