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I have to admit, I ran a modified version of this list at 2000 pts today in a local going away 4th Ed Tourny and I took 3rd place with it. It came down to the last game, up until that point I was doing battle for 1st place, but I got horribly horribly slain due to the fact that the particular scenario didnt allow Deep Strike... So The game was over before turn 1.

I can say what would have happened for I shall never know, but I have a hunch that I could have done ALOT better if I could have used the list the way it was supposed to be run. Hell even the event runner felt bad for me once he found out what happened.

For you that doubt this list, I can personally say it is ungodly effective when used correctly... much more then my usual gunline that I run.

In 5E, you can *always* deep strike.

It's a nice change.

Unless you play in tournaments that specifically dont allow DS in some home made missions. They seem quite common in 4th ed, guessing that wont change with fifth really.

Really can always Deep strike ? where does it say that ? JW

Only flaw is tourments.

Pretty good list but for that.

But how are IG bad in 5th ed you never really explained it.

Kallbrand wrote:Unless you play in tournaments that specifically dont allow DS in some home made missions. They seem quite common in 4th ed, guessing that wont change with fifth really.

I think that'll be called bullcrap by players.

It's been changed because not having it screws armies, and having a scenario system that doesn't challenge the playerbase properly has been a bane of major GW tournaments for the longest time.

Attendance isn't down in huge numbers for no reason.

Knowing 2/5 of your games, your army won't function = lame.

I know I won't remove deep strike, hopefully GW's staffers won't either.

Jervis pretty much said so in the Design conference at games day, that they intend for the scenario rules to stand as written for the GT's. They will throw in some variations for flavor, but the basic scenario rules will still be in effect. I think they realized what a mess that was.

You never know about some RT run by a FLGS however.

The more I look at this list, the more I like it, cheaper than the Rhino spam army, lots of fun vehicles to paint, and a guard army that does not require me to paint nine billion cadians.

My only question would be,,, is it fun to play with and/or against. It does seem like one of those armies that are designed to get a low sportsmanship score, and while I am usually pretty good at making my opponent feel good about loosing, it still seems like it might be a little bit OTT.

Of course compared to the Land Raider Spam army this will probably be considerd the fluffy-kitten-army-of-compiness.

I am intrigued, I must say.

No army is "designed" to get a low sportsmanship score.

COMP IS NOT SPORTSMANSHIP. GW removed comp for a reason, it's lame.

It's a hard army to beat. That doesn't mean it isn't beatable, not by a long shot.

Everything is legal, so I wouldn't worry too much about what opponents rate you--the lower your sportsmanship score due to your army, and not you...it speaks volumes to their character.

COMP IS NOT SPORTSMANSHIP. GW removed comp for a reason, it's lame.

Oh, your preaching to the converted there brother!

I know they are not 'supposed' to, but they still do. Still if just a couple people bring those land raider lists you talk about, this will be way under the radar for the whiney comp police set.

I think I have found my Baltimore army, couple minor variations perhaps, but I really do like it. And it will give me a base to build my valkyrie guard list once the new codex comes out. You know they will make the valks god awesome since they are putting out the new plastic kits for both the valks and the stormies.

Thanks, this is a great starter point and I just never looked deeply enough at the last chancers when the book came out. Should be an unholy terror under 5th.

Might even have some fun making them a 'counts as' traitor unit of slaneesh traitors. that could be cool looking and characterful, might even give me above 'average' painting for once.

Yes, and hopefully they'll revamp the soft scoring system so it's not so for ers!

Stelek wrote:
Make better. I'd like to see it.

Ok, so here we go. I just made this at work, off the top of my head, with out my codex, so the math may be wrong, but I think it's close. Here's the list, then an explaination:

Command Platoon: 145
Command squad: 95
-JO w/ plasma pistol, power weapon
-4x guard with 4x meltagun
Sentinel squadron: 50
-Autocannon sentinel

Hardened Veteran Squad: 85
-Veteran Sergeant w/ plasma pistol
-4x veterans w/ 3x plasma gun

Hardened Veteran Squad: 85
-Veteran Sergeant w/ plasma pistol
-4x veterans w/ 3x plasma gun

Hardened Veteran Squad: 85
-Veteran Sergeant w/ plasma pistol
-4x veterans w/ 3x plasma gun

Infantry Platoon:365
Command Squad: 95
-JO w/ plasma pistol, power weapon
-4x guardsmen w/ 4x meltagun
Infantry Squad: 90
-Heavy bolter, plasma gun, light infantry
Infantry Squad: 90
-Heavy bolter, plasma gun, light infantry
Infantry Squad: 90
-Heavy bolter, plasma gun, light infantry

Infantry Platoon:365
Command Squad: 95
-JO w/ plasma pistol, power weapon
-4x guardsmen w/ 4x meltagun
Infantry Squad: 90
-Heavy bolter, plasma gun, light infantry
Infantry Squad: 90
-Heavy bolter, plasma gun, light infantry
Infantry Squad: 90
-Heavy bolter, plasma gun, light infantry

Sentinel Squadron: 110
-2x Lascannon Sentinels

Sentinel Squadron: 110
-2x Lascannon Sentinels

Sentinel Squadron: 110
-2x Lascannon Sentinels

Basilisk: 145
-Indirect fire, improved comms

Basilisk: 145
-Indirect fire, improved comms

Total: 1750


This takes advantage of the amazing abilities of Scouts and Infiltrators in 5th edition, while still keeping your favored drop-squads, Stelek. You drop all 3 command squads, and the veterans. That's still 12x dropping melta guns, and 9x droping plasma guns. That's potent.

The infantry all infiltrate in, via flanking maneuvers. They are 10-strong instead of the dinky Last Chancers. That way, they have a decent chance of holding an objective, especially if you group a few squads together. Also, they will be able to fire their guns more than once. They have heavy bolters, so they can dig in as well, or deal with a tournament organizer who says no Deep strike or infiltrate....

The sentinels become and awesome force in 5th edition. You can depoly anywhere on the table side, even right up next to your opponent. So, coming on the side of the bored with a lascannon (or in this case, 6 of them) will really ruin a tank formation's day. Plus, in groups of 2, you have to kill both to get a kill point.

The basilisks are there, because in your original list, the only thigns to shoot at the first turn are your tanks, which means they get hate. The basilisks can hopefully be out of sight, meaning your opponent has no targets first turn. Plus, they have improved comms, which means you'll get about 85% of your infiltrators on your second turn, which is just rancidly awesome.

So, that's my list. I'd wager it's better than last chancers and lemans.

It's a pisspoor list, really. Sorry man.

Turn 1, the basilisks all die--true line of sight, not 4E rules.

Turn 2, any sentinel units that come on get annihilated by the heavy weapons with no AV14 to shoot at.

If I setup my defending army in one corner, all I have to do is lascannon snipe your sentinels...and your IG that come on from the other side of the board can be ignored. Those that come on my side, will be dealt with by my entire army.

It's really easy to kill vehicle squadrons, ya know this yes?

It's a horrifying list.

Wow. Your ignorance is amazing. I'm done talking to you.

Neat. Play some 5E games with your list then. Infiltrating guard get owned bad. One turn of rapid fire on a tank = lose. I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings.

Dahh no I'm not. Can't..... resist.... arugment....

Assuming, you have made terrain appropriate for 5th edition.....


hiding 2 tanks on turn one is not difficult. I also think that most gaming clubs and tournament organizers will have some kind of abstraction still in place - e.g. - the wooded hill is supposed to represent extremely dense forest, and you can't actually shoot through it, even though you can get a nick of the hull of thatr vehicle if you're a nazi....

Sentinels willl always have a target. And I think you underestimate their melee ability. Against units that their lascannon won't be as effective against - IG, Orks, the like - they have S3 and can't kill the Sentinel anyway. So they can tie up big hordes. And killing tanks with lascannons and an autocannon from the side is much easier than killing them from the front. Tanks will go down.

If you set up your defending army in a corner, I'm going to do the same, and hit you with indirect fire. This list has long range shooting too. And, my sentinels can move AND fire their lascannons.

Killing a squadrong is more difficult than killing a single vehicle. Especially a sentinel.


But, obviously, I won't convince you, so I'll leave this to others to decide.

Screw what GC and TO's say or do.

It's TRUE LOS. Period. That's how GW wrote the rules. You can't make a bad army list then say 'well people will play by different rules'. Cherry picking and calling people Nazi's is also bull.

Sentinels will melee what? Orks cannot kill Sentinels?! Are you crazy? Or just uninformed on how Nobs with power klaws autoglance on 1's and pen on 2+....after hitting on 3+? Sigh.

You do realize your 'I am going to setup in a corner too nyah nyah' defense only works if you get the SECOND turn, right?

Killing a squadron is more difficult than killing a vehicle? Really? For two sentinels, I can shoot them to pieces with bolters and every glance 6 = dead sentinel. Against a Leman Russ (worth 2 sentinels) my lascannon only glances on a 5 (and does little) and pens on a 6...which can kill me 33% of the time.

Run the numbers I guess. Or play the 5E rules as they exist...

I have to disagree with you to a point.
The bassies are dang near pointless in 5th Ed... they die so easy.
If the two lists were to fight I believe that yours would lose Jhagadurn.
The melta squads on turn 2 would kill your bassies, plasma squads would hunt your sents down, then the hellhounds would go inf hunting while the LRs kill things from a distance. Sure you would kill some stuff, but mathhammer it out and the numbers are in Steleks favor. Also like I stated earlier I played a slightly modified version of this list a few days ago and came in 3rd at a local FLGS. Its simple, effective and efficient and if you get a bad comp rateing then your opponent is a poor sport. Then again ive seen people do just that because they didnt automatically win against guard so they thought they were broken.

Also as for LOS I have to agree with Stelek, the Rules as Written state that its True LOS.. Im not saying its going to be impossible to hide vehicles, but its going to be ALOT harder to do then in 4th.

One more thing, Sentinels in H2H? Please.
Sure they have lascannons, but the numbers dont lie, you are more likely to get shot up then my LR's are. Even with the move and shoot. In order to be effective you would have to baby the living daylights out of em, and thats more work then they are worth. I think ill stick with my Russ.

A LR can lose a weapon and still be worth something.

A bassie...can't. No sponsons. :(

Overtooled HQ is the first misstake, basilisks the second and Sentinel spam the last.

It might beat some vehicle heavy armies with flank shoots(if you make good reserve rolls and right table edges) and drop meltas but thats about it.

Chiming in to say that I just finished converting 21 plasma gunner Cadians out of marine plasma pistols. Booyah. 8 Meltaguns and some tank assembly, then this list is ready to make some friends.

I think Stalek's initial army is interesting and his tactics seem well thought out. I feel he's probably right about basilisks.

Personally though, I think the last chancers are more appropriate to narrative style missions/campaigns than for pick up or tournament play. I'd like to see a version that uses the "real" IG rules and not the "we wrote a lame novel, now here are some really over-flexible troops that you can mix and match in all sorts of ways that are illegal in the normal guard."

Im sorry, are you mad because the guard have 1 good choice instead of a power codex of cheese +1 like most armies? Its simply a different way to play guard other then a Gunline or Armour Company like you see.......... Everywhere.
And they should fully be expect in Tourneys. They are a solid choice for your army! Im not sure how many you have played in, but you want your army to be flexable in a tourny, not the opposite.
Also I dont know what you mean by "illegal in the normal guard" because these guys are not that. They are fully legal in the normal guard or else you wouldnt be able to field em.

What do you do if someone has an Inquisitor with Mystics?

You fry 'em with the hellhounds.

In 5th, people can choose to put as much in reserves as they want, no?

How does that factor into your plans, when both armies are coming piecemeal and you have less to shoot at? sure, the smaller elite armies you'll just gangbang, but other armies you may find yourself with more units than targets on one turn and then swamped the next.

I don't think that's an auto-loss, but that may turn it into more of a hard-fought game than you would originally plan.

Stelek wrote:It's a pisspoor list, really. Sorry man.


It's a horrifying list.

I dunno Stelek, your usual "here's a good point, and I'm not sugar-coating it for you, and you're not going to like hearing it" seems a bit short-sighted in this case. I think his list has more options and flexibility and would be more fun to play than the all drop list. Sometimes murdering your opponent with no chance for them to fight back just isn't fun. Maybe his list would lose to yours, maybe his list would lose more often than yours. But I don't think it's crap, and I don't think you're right when you say it is.

I'm a big opponent of the "it's not the best so it sucks" school of thought, the same one that eliminates certain casters as decent leaders in Warmachine because they're not among the tier 1 elite uber casters with awesome spells, feats and abilities - who cares? They can be fun to play and effective when used right - who cares that they don't just play themselves and win the game automatically.


I uh... would definitely take Leman Russes over Basilisks, though. Any day of the week. Even if you can hide your tank from the enemy, in 5th it's less likely they'll be able to do so from you, so why bother with indirect fire? Go with the "haha, I'm harder to kill in the new rules and still have the same stupidly high armour I did before" safe bet.

-Spellbound

I run everything.

When I struggle against noobs, I think something isn't worth taking just to prove a point.