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From the sounds of it, is he a Terminator? Wielding a Heavy Flamer I would expect so, unless it's something that just sounds as one.

Aduro wrote:From the sounds of it, is he a Terminator? Wielding a Heavy Flamer I would expect so, unless it's something that just sounds as one.

Considering the Salamanders have been known to do the whole terminator thing pretty well (at least in past fluff) It wouldn't surprise me if he was arrayed in a Tactical Dreadnought suit with an *uber* thunderhammer, and an ancient, powerful heavy flamer.

Buck to a bent dime, he's in a Terminator suit.

-RT-

I wonder how many years before he gets a model? Sallies are going from being the red-headed step-children to getting a massive amount of love. How good are the Khan's rules?

The Khan: Supposedly, he's got a fairly standard special character stat-line, with WS:6

He has a rule that gives part (or all?) of the army flank march, rather than the combat tactics special rule. Meaning you can sweep in from the short board edges.

Has a special bike he rides, gives himself, and the squad he's with/attached to furious charge, and the fleet USR, meaning they can move, 'run' and charge. Counts as a bike, etc.

He also has a pretty badass powersword, that works like a force weapon without the psychic test. You roll to hit as normal, then roll to wound. If you roll a 6 on the to-wound roll, and the target fails it's invulnerable save (if it has one), that models is removed regardless of how many wounds it has, as-per a force weapon I do believe. I imagine a character or unit that's immune to instant death would be immune to this as well, but time will tell I'm sure.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Take care,

-RT-

Man... maybe my Sisters of Battle will be Salamanders in drag for various battles. That will be a pretty fun change of pace, rocking tougher girls with the same EQ, and a burny land raider.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Yay, now the marines are sicker than the spikey marines. All is well in GW land.

That was accompanied by gratuitous vomiting, right Noisy? Cause it was on my end

- Salvage

Red__Thirst wrote:The Khan: Supposedly, he's got a fairly standard special character stat-line, with WS:6

He has a rule that gives part (or all?) of the army flank march, rather than the combat tactics special rule. Meaning you can sweep in from the short board edges.

Has a special bike he rides, gives himself, and the squad he's with/attached to furious charge, and the fleet USR, meaning they can move, 'run' and charge. Counts as a bike, etc.

He also has a pretty badass powersword, that works like a force weapon without the psychic test. You roll to hit as normal, then roll to wound. If you roll a 6 on the to-wound roll, and the target fails it's invulnerable save (if it has one), that models is removed regardless of how many wounds it has, as-per a force weapon I do believe. I imagine a character or unit that's immune to instant death would be immune to this as well, but time will tell I'm sure.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Take care,

-RT-

Khan actually only grants himself fleet, he grants squads he joins Hit & Run, and Furious Charge. He's WS 6, and his Power Weapon just causes Instant Death if you roll a 6 to wound.

And yes, he gives the whole army Flank March.

All I have to say to this one is there is definitely already a 300 point Character model with no ID that can take Tu'shan

....
..
.

SKARBRAND!!!!

Ok, I have a question. So Tu'shan has unbelieveably good stats. But does that make sense? I mean abbadon is so amazing because he is 10,000 years old, the son of horus, Master of Chaos, and has the blessing of ALL 4 chaos gods. It doesnt make sense AT ALL to me that there could possibly be a space marine character that could rival him point for point. so Does it really make sense for Tu'shan to be this good? Or does GW just want to give SM a really good character because they can?

extrenm(54) wrote:Ok, I have a question. So Tu'shan has unbelieveably good stats. But does that make sense? I mean abbadon is so amazing because he is 10,000 years old, the son of horus, Master of Chaos, and has the blessing of ALL 4 chaos gods. It doesnt make sense AT ALL to me that there could possibly be a space marine character that could rival him point for point. so Does it really make sense for Tu'shan to be this good? Or does GW just want to give SM a really good character because they can?

AGREE

Can he at least be instant deathed? I like to think 'Eternal Warrior' is reserved for only the most other-wordly or truly impressive beings out there, which, as Kharne apparently does not fall into this category, I would not class any loyalist space marine character as such either. Possibly a dreadnought though

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:Can he at least be instant deathed?

AgeOfEgos wrote:And he's also immune to ID.

*VOMICATION CONTINUES*

(Thanks for that, and what a ridiculous application of EW)

- Salvage

WEll, he proabably comes with an Adamantium Mantle, that's why he's immune to ID

Perfect_Timing wrote:All I have to say to this one is there is definitely already a 300 point Character model with no ID that can take Tu'shan

....
..
.

SKARBRAND!!!!

Actually, running the numbers I get Skarry doing 40/27 (1.48) wounds to Tushy in one round while Tushy does 25/16 (1.56) wounds to Skarry. Assumes they're both standing still, assumes 5-5-(8)-4-3-5-5-10-2/3+ for Tushy's stats and incorporates Skarry's rerolls for both parties. If Big T has 4 attaks it drops to 5/4 (1.25) wounds a round. So not a cut and dried thing, Skarry has WS & A on Tushy but that's it (after the first round of I6 from furious charge, should Skarry get it off).

mattyboy22 wrote:WEll, he proabably comes with an Adamantium Mantle, that's why he's immune to ID

That occured to me, but I assumed it was the same as now - first instant death = 1 wound instead (right?). I could see GW changing the mantle entirely though

- Salvage

EDIT -- And I suppose Skarbrand's 4 wounds beat Tushy's 3 ... if he doesn't have 4!

Ok, I am still concerned about the 100% authenticity of this rumor. I will reserve my judgment/excitement until the book come out. Looking through the posts, I see Grand Warmaster Pinto has brought up an interesting points about the disparity between Chaos Space Marines and Space Marines.

Well we still don't know all his stats. I4 would put him simo with MEq and behind most strong assaulters. I think I4 is likely and would balance him a bit more but even I5 puts him behind most of the main badass. Also, WS5, maybe WS6, means most of the strong chaos guys are better then him in that regard (Abbadon, Princes, GDs, Kharne) or atleast tie him (Chaos Lord, other special characters). Which is where an older character should be better then him.

By my calcs, Abbadon still has an edge on Tu'Shan in a fight on average wounds, making the battle pretty even when figuring in t-hammer effect, even if Tu'Shan has 4 attacks (which is possible, as is 3, but certainly not 5) or 4 wounds (again, 3 or 4 is possible).

What Tu'Shan will excell at though is beating the big MCs and other high T stuff. Which makes sense -- Salamander veterans are known for taking down Firedrakes by themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure they should have made Tu'Shan quite this strong, even though the background does hint at him being strong and tough for a space marine. But hey, I won't complain too much

winterman wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure they should have made Tu'Shan quite this strong, even though the background does hint at him being strong and tough for a space marine. But hey, I won't complain too much

*Shrug*, I'm somewhat skeptical about a Init striking TH. The 3+ Inv makes some sense if they want him to be above the normal Captain (Which appears will come with 4+ inv standard now).

However, even if all of these stats prove to be true...I don't consider it a big deal. He's still a 3 wound 300 pt model that needs to get into HTH. With the new consolidation rules (Or lack thereof), big nasties that will wipe out squads at a time don't scare me. I'm more concerned about IG fielding 3 LR tanks as one heavy to be honest...

6 LR in cover with a heavy to spare. This would make old school IW flinch.

For reference, Kor'Sarro Khan's Stats:
6 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 3+

As long as a normal marine captain doesn't have WS6 like my chaos lords I'll promise to keep my cool again. Honestly it's more my pride as a chaos player () injured than worry about taking Tushy down in the game. What gives me more cause for concern is the rerolled flamers / melta madness. WTF.

And agreed on the Russ spam. WTF x9.

- Salvage

What gives me more cause for concern is the rerolled flamers / melta madness. WTF.

Could be nasty, yes But remember the rumor is no more cleanse and purify, even for the salamanders. That limits the affect this will have over what we are used too.

Still will be a very powerful ability. I can see why they had Tu'Shan replace the fall back ability with stubborn. It is both fluffy and keeps people from dropping out of an assault to rain down reroll wound flamery death.

I'm not sure that the Nightbringer would be too impressed...


Tu'Shan: Yo man, I hear your the guy to talk to about big expensive CC units.

NB: Yeah, that's me. Who are you?

Tu'Shan: I'm the new hotness, just like Abaddon last year, but less spiky. I'm a loyalist, old school fluff, Salamanders.

NB:Huh...yeah? I remember them. Hmm, been a year or so, bout time for a new smurf dex. A-ight, what you got?

Tu'Shan: Well, first off, I'm not just some crunchy Space Marine, my toughness is 5.

NB: Sure.

Tu'Shan, and also, I'm immune to instant death. Totally immune, like, it just doesn't even happen to me.

NB: Aw mann, I was totally thinking I'd just chump you with my S10

Tu'Shan: Think again, you're...oh, s10, huh. I guess t5 isn't a big deal for you.

NB: No man, it's really cool. Lots of special characters don't even get that going on. I totally appreciate the effort. I think Typhus did that, and Big D and I still talk about him.

Tu'Shan: Alright, well, I'm in terminator armor, got my 2+ going on. You probably get that a lot, right?

NB: Yeah, I'm an MC though. You know, sort of a requirement for 300+ point crowd that we ignore armor saves.

Tu'Shan: Sure, Sure, I expected that. But I'm backing mine up with a 3+ invulnerable save. I mean, previously only your boys the Wraiths and that Kairos twit had that going on.

NB: Hmm...yeah, bout that...

Tu'Shan: Oh, dude, no worries, I'm not copying, my fluff is totally different than theirs.

NB: What I mean, is...well, I ignore invulnerable saves.

Tu'Shan: Huh? Really? Like some sort of psycannon?

NB: Yeah, lots of people get heated about that.

Tu'Shan: Yeah, I can see why...jeez, so...I don't get any saves?

NB: Sorry...So, six swings, hit 3 times, wound 3 times, figure I got you in one round.

Tu'Shan: Two! You'll probably roll a one to wound, or I'll get th charge and you won't have-

NB:Two then.

Tu'Shan: How old did you say your codex was?

LOL. Wish I could sig that, very nice 40ke.

I would point out that his 300 point price tag I am sure is as much to do with his force enhancing ability as his combat ability. We will still have to see what he does to the force though (there's been comments on b&C that the rumored rerolls to t-hammers and flame/melta is not quite that good).

40kenthusiast wrote:I'm not sure that the Nightbringer would be too impressed...

Lots of good words

But Tu'Shan is in green armor. And he is wearing a dragons skin, beeyatch. That pwnz.


As for the fluff regarding 10,000 year old CSM vs. loyalist SM:

What do you think the CSM's do in the warp? Tactical training? Strategic analysis?

No. They eat babies, drink goat blood, and fornicate with trees and crap. Hardly improves their skills.


Look, don't hate Tu'Shan. It's only right.

dienekes96 wrote:What do you think the CSM's do in the warp? Tactical training? Strategic analysis?

No. They eat babies, drink goat blood, and fornicate with trees and crap. Hardly improves their skills.

Yeah, but have you seen the babies, goats and trees they've got in there?!

- Salvage

Monster babies?

Hottie trees?

Make sure you check those trees for bees 1st.

But if you find bees in the trees, just yell "Boo bees!" Then they will fly away in fear. Hee hee hee I am heelarious!

dienekes96 wrote:
As for the fluff regarding 10,000 year old CSM vs. loyalist SM:

What do you think the CSM's do in the warp? Tactical training? Strategic analysis?

No. They eat babies, drink goat blood, and fornicate with trees and crap. Hardly improves their skills.


Look, don't hate Tu'Shan. It's only right.

Just like to add that even though 10,000 years have passed outside the warp does not mean its the case to those in the warp. Warp = non-linear space time.

Rbb wrote:Make sure you check those trees for bees 1st.

That's why you slap the trunk first.

/Rimshot

I think Kharn and Lucius should have eternal warrior since they both "died" and came back. For Typhus and the rest I can understand. But Lucius specifically takes over the body of whoever kills him and HE doesn't get eternal warrior? Come on!

But, since the armories are disappearing, it looks like "Eternal Warrior" will separate useful HQ choices from the rest of the bunch.


And for the record, I think 10,000 years of baby fornicating and tree humping would make chaos marines more awesome. Even if time is non-linear. Hell, that means the chaos marines could jump a goat, then go back into the past, and do it AGAIN! Now that's chaotic.

Lol Boss, I have no idea where you got that vomiting smilie.