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obliterators are good but i only run six at the most, i think theyll be just as good in 5th, but poeple might tone them down becuase maybe just maybe poeple will be running more troops. i would rather just run four oblits and run more troops fitted with meltas and melta bombs. dp are just as good except mine is giant so it looks like no cover for it( but he is an eternal warrier) i think chosen will be good if you can find room in your list for them, probley in bigger games theyll be used.

Stelek wrote:Dude, Eldar players run lots of S6 guns without AP because that's what Phil Kelly put in the book as a very good build.

I haven't personally run a Starcannon in YEARS.

Only AP2 stuff I have are 2 pulse lasers on 2 falcons and a fire prism blast.

Is that what's killing you?

They don't have a ton of AP2 fire unless that's all they bring (cough gimpwalkers) and if you 'bounce off' how's that work?

In 5E? Stunned vehicles (thanks holofields!) can't shoot you...is it the Wave Serpents and/or Guardians with Starcannons killing your oblits or what?

Please, no mentioning of BL Guardians pwning your Oblits...I can't handle the laughter anymore.

Just out of curiosity Stelek, are we talking about 2k games here?

There is only love for 3x3 obliterators in my world. Plasma cannons without partials, multimeltas for landraiders and the all standard lascannon/twin linked plasma. The fact that there usually are less lascannons around against me also makes me a happy puppy.

I'm starting to get the impression that the core 2 DPs, and 6 Oblits is not as good as it once was. - Typeline

I stopped reading after I read this so someone might have already said something.

6 Obliterators....what the hell. These rules changes were created because people take 6 Obliterators. And Daemon princes....they are uncosted and the game designers figured it out too late, thats why they cost so much more in the Daemons codex. As a Chaos Marine player who fields mostly Marines and Chosen I have no pity for you.

DonkeyCannon wrote:I'm starting to get the impression that the core 2 DPs, and 6 Oblits is not as good as it once was. - Typeline

I stopped reading after I read this so someone might have already said something.

6 Obliterators....what the hell. These rules changes were created because people take 6 Obliterators. And Daemon princes....they are uncosted and the game designers figured it out too late, thats why they cost so much more in the Daemons codex. As a Chaos Marine player who fields mostly Marines and Chosen I have no pity for you.

the rules changes in 5th we'rent dont to reduce the power of the current chaos codex. they were done as an attempt to make the game more blanced and more cinematic. rending was too good, so they nerfed it. skimmers were too good, so they nerfed them. many combat armies were too slow, so now they can run.

the reason people are taking a core of oblits and DPs is because everything else in the codex in those slots suck. both are good, but they are hardly overpowering compared to other things that other armies get. most armies MCs are better than DPs. oblits are good, but about on par with other heavy support.

demon princes cost more in the csm dex than they do in the demons dex (the same with wings)

either way, it doesnt matter. oblits are still as good as they every were, but now they can see more stuff and, although their plasma cannon scatter, they hit everything. demon princes are also still as good as they were, but now they have run to get into combat faster (as if they needed it) and get a cover save if there is stuff standing infront of them.

Spellbound, seriously, get some better dice. Cheap Milton Bradley dice are better than Chessex. I always thought the Emperor merely loved me more than Boss Salvage after experiencing far greater success in rolling a 3+, but it turns out Tzeentch just hates dice with rounded edges and drilled holes.
If you are not willing to put out for nice, sharp, Vegas style dice (which can be reasonable if you get them off eBay etc.) at least get dice that are as square edged and with undrilled pips as possible.