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In 1500+, I usually take a caddy cause I'm a chicken . 2 DD is very low IMO, though there are usually only 1 or two spells a game you really need to stop. Buying magic heavy takes up lots of points in (usually) low T low W models, so your opponent tends to lose out elsewhere... I try to make sure he bleeds for that.

Under 1500, I tend to get by with just mage hunting and proper movement/deployment. Which brings me to my main point: you should consider magic heavy when making an allcomers list. I'm not saying you should get a scroll caddy, but you should be able to deal with casters/magic. My high elves have eagles or shadow warriors, my tomb kings have carrion and scorps, my O&G have lots of expendable, throw-away wolf rider units, in my empire army I have a captasus, long rifles, some pistoliers, etc... Mages usually need LOS, which means they can be seen, and being in a unit doesn't protect you from getting a spear shoved up a suitable orifice. Mages tend to be expensive too, so two eagles cost less then one mage. And the eagles can rally after the assassination and their 3d6" flee move, so I can use them again with a little luck...

So, in short: take mages into account. I just believe that magic defense is more then dispel dice and scroll caddies; mage-hunting, LOS-blocking expendable units, etc. can serve you very well vs heavy magic, and they have multiple roles too, so if you're facing dwarfs they'll still have some uses, where a scroll caddy is a massive waste of points.

My 2 cents.

I'm not a great player by any means (so take my comments with a grain of salt) but I've found magic defense a necessity in most of the games I play. With Brets I usually have 5dd and 5 scrolls in a 2000pt game. This usually allows me to shut down most magic until turn 3 or 4 at which point I have (hopefully) taken down the opponents wizards.
I've had my army shut down due to magic too many times to not take any magic defense.

Yea, but you are usually playing against REALLY magic heavy armies. the Dark Elf lists tht mike and ty play very magic heavy, and my High Elf lists don't have much less. and when Ty breaks out his Skaven, it's even worse. most people can get by on 5 dd and one or two scrolls. no need for 5 of them. But with our group, heavy magic defense is a MUST.

I find in 1000 points or less my dwarves default 4 dice is generally enough and in 2000 points I stick with 7DD I get from the anvil plus default. No caddies, magic defense ruins or extra runesmiths are ever included. However this caused an issue once when I lost my full unit with SB thane and fighty thane included all at the same time to a single tzeetch spell. I can't remember the name of it but its the highest cast cost in the game right now I think and I auto failed to dispel when I rolled two ones at the same time when uising 5 DD to shut it down. A spell destroyer for 45pts would have been a bargin consider I lost 450+ pts of stuff to the single spell.

I didn't feel like reading the whole post. But a scroll caddy is usually worth it, even if that's your only defense. Just stop the one spell that will murder you for two turns and by then your should be in range for a fight.

I started this thread, but experienced in my last game that even though I dominated the magic phase in my last game (1250 Points of Vampires against Slaanesh chaos) a scroll would have been very handy.

The Chaos player had one lvl 1 and one lvl 2 sorcerer, so 5 power dice and I had 5 DD, but he somehow managed to cast the last spell in the slaneesh-lore (every model in a unit takes toughness test or loses a wound, no save) three times in the game!
A single scroll would have saved me some skellies, that's for sure.

I think it depends if you can lose some models in your army or not. A horde army can still work if one unit is seriously crippled or destroyed, a elite army can't.

Thanks for the replies, nice read.

Greets
Schepp himself

I have actually won a 2k tournament with 0 magic defense, but then again didnt face a single wizard either. But since the new VC have come out, I'm at a lose for what to do. My two main armies (BoC and Lizardmen(no Slann)) have always been mainly a close combat force with a skink shaman scroll caddie for the lizards and 2 lvl 2 lore of beast shamans for the BoC. These used to be enough but with the new VC....I just can't seem to make it work. I have lost count of how many times I have hit a 30+ unit of skeletons/ghouls/zombies and knocked it down to 1-3 models on the charge only to have it back at full strength after my opponents magice phase. The fact that in 2k+ games a vamp lord can summon 1 unit type on a roll of a 2+ and do it over and over again, seems beyond broken. Zombies, ok. But skeletons, and especially ghouls....come on. I hate seeing 3-5 10 man units start on the table only to be bumped up to over 20 each after the first magic phase! and guess what if you manage to knock one of em out....you only get between 60-80 points. Nevermind that you killed some 40+ 6 point models to do it.....ug.

Well went off on a bit of a rant, but it really bugs me that GW has forced anyone who really wants to be competative to go magic heavy. Otherwise they are going to get swamped by VC...

You can never cast a spell with a natural roll of 1 or 2. It's in the rulebook. Show it to the guy, it's a good read.

And besides, vampires are pretty squishy these days...

Greets
Schepp himself