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It's also consistent with the rest of the portrayals of Tau in electronic media that they have a somewhat stereotypical east asian accent but I don't think its racist.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Tau aren't "another race" (they'd be another *species*, for the biologically ignorant), and stereotyping them with a "Far East Asian voice" is definitely racist.

No, this is what happens when you eat to much Political Correctness Cereal (with Vitamins) for breakfast.

Racism is when you belch 6 million people through the crematorium chimney just because you want to steal their money.

I just want to know why all film Romans have British Accents. (Though the Rome series on HBO did kick some major pattootie...)

theres no such thing as a british accent, BRITAIN is scotland, wales and england. scotland and wales have COMPLETELY different accents to any part of england
and most parts of england have different accents. its like saying texans sound like newyorkers.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the regional accent here changes every 15 miles.

Norfolk has the best accent in my opinion

corpsesarefun wrote:theres no such thing as a british accent, BRITAIN is scotland, wales and england. scotland and wales have COMPLETELY different accents to any part of england
and most parts of england have different accents. its like saying texans sound like newyorkers.

You know what I meant. I know a Mancunian from a Londoner. Yet a Texas accent and a Bronx accent are both American accents.

You still haven't explained why Titus Pullo and Lucius Verenus both sound more at home in the middle of Surrey than they do the Amalfi Coast.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

odinsspear45 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Let nobody say that racism is dead.

I guess actually wanting to represent another race with an authentic accent is now racially motivated?

Your going to have a heard time in life if your such a small person by attacking people for wanting "theme" and "texture" and "ambiance" for their theatrical endeavors.

Tau aren't "another race" (they'd be another *species*, for the biologically ignorant), and stereotyping them with a "Far East Asian voice" is definitely racist.

____

BTW, I saw this advert as well:

We are looking for someone who can clearly speak "Darkie" English with a Negroid accent living in the London UK area.

We would prefer if you have knowledge of the following:

* Warhammer 40,000 universe.
* Ork rules and literature.

Becaust that's *so* much better, right?

I am not biologically ignorant as I pointed out before Asian accent doesn't have any bearing on "race" he didn't request an "Asian" he requested someone able to produce a " far-east Asian accent" If someone said they wanted a "European or African" accent would you presume a specific racial criteria? African could be white black or Semitic depending on where in Africa you’re talking about. The point was he wanted linguistic flair for the role. And you obviously are looking to be down-trodden so be my guest lay down on the street and I will gladly walk about on you... but while your crying and whining about how abused and beaten you are don't forget to point out you were fool enough to lay in the street.

The other one... I would say that is definitely more in line with your assumption of potential racism. Or perhaps a disproportionate level of indifference of concern about hurting peoples feelings.


Anyway good luck on your crusade to make a better world.

Perhaps soon we can all look, think, act and speak the same then we will truely be a great species..
oh wait those are ants.

Valhallan42nd wrote:The Tau have obvious asian influeneces, why is having an asian accent racist?

Out of curiosity, what influences are those?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

BTW, I saw this advert as well:

We are looking for someone who can clearly speak "Darkie" English with a Negroid accent living in the London UK area.

We would prefer if you have knowledge of the following:

* Warhammer 40,000 universe.
* Ork rules and literature.

Becaust that's *so* much better, right?

Oh good lord!

Why beat around the bush with words like darkie as if you were chris chan? May as well just use monikers like 'Mississippi Mudcricket' for chrissakes.

Thats hilarious stuff.

Well just for starters, how about the rigid 'caste' system?

What a waste of Bandwidth.

akira5665 wrote:
Far out dudes, If I wanted a Far-East German accent, would anyone give a toss?


"As German is a language, probably not. The difference is "asian" is not a language. " Johiro.

As I asked for an accent, not the Language, I think I am aware of the difference. Are you?

akira5665 wrote:Well just for starters, how about the rigid 'caste' system?

Which part of East Asia is famous for its caste system?

As I asked for an accent, not the Language, I think I am aware of the difference. Are you?

The difference is that people from different parts of East Asia all sound different when speaking English, because their languages are quite different. There is no single "East Asian" accent. To ask for an "East German" accent though, narrows the focus clearly enough that we can imagine very clearly what is asked for. To lump all East Asians together in one group ignores a lot of pretty profound differences between them and is what opens up the discussion for claims of racism.

Look at the size of East Asia on a map. It's huge. So let's compare it to a similar-sized area. Let's say an American put out a call for voice actors and wanted someone with a "European accent" (Europe being roughly the same size as East Asia). Would you not cringe at the ignorance of that request?

But this is getting truly off topic. Let's agree to keep the discussion at least tangentially related to wargaming. I'd like to hear more reasons why people think the Tau are Asians. Personally I see them as being more Roman.

JOHIRA wrote:

akira5665 wrote:Well just for starters, how about the rigid 'caste' system?

Which part of East Asia is famous for its caste system?

China, Korea and Japan all have histories of the caste system. I can't recall what other regions are considered part of East Asia but that certainly seems a majority. Unless you are asking what modern nations use the caste system, in which the obvious (and only one I can think of) is India.

How do you equate Tau to Roman ideology? (Honestly curious, as I see the Imperium as the obvious representative)

JOHIRA wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:The Tau have obvious asian influeneces, why is having an asian accent racist?

Out of curiosity, what influences are those?

Giant Robots and Anime style armor on their foot troopers. In particular, the shoulder pad on the Fire Warriors is a nod to the sode of the Samurai, and their Ashigaru retainers. The Tau bonding knife resembles a sheathed tanto. The tau ranking system sounds to western ears like a far eastern dialect. That's off the top of my head, I'm sure there is more.

Also, Giant Robots again. Because the Japanese invented cool giant robots.

But this is getting truly off topic. Let's agree to keep the discussion at least tangentially related to wargaming. I'd like to hear more reasons why people think the Tau are Asians. Personally I see them as being more Roman.

I don't see that. If you're looking for Roman analog in the 40k universe, you head straight to Ultramar.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

JOHIRA wrote:

akira5665 wrote:Well just for starters, how about the rigid 'caste' system?

Which part of East Asia is famous for its caste system?

China, Korea and Japan all have histories of the caste system.

Japan's caste system at least (and I suspect most other real-world caste systems, though I'm no historian) are critically different from the Tau though, in that for the Tau, all castes are equal. No caste (except for the Ethereals) is more important, more powerful, or respected than the others. A Tau Earth caste worker doesn't have to make way for an Air caste messenger when they pass on the street. For the Tau, all are recognized as a necessary part of the Greater Good. So for a wandering Fire Caste warrior to say, decide he should test out his new pulse rifle on an Earth Caste laborer, because laborers are unimportant and replaceable, would violate everything the Tau stand for. In Japan, castes were rigidly hierarchical. Every caste had clear superiors and inferiors. Samurai were at the top, then the farmers, then the artisans, then the traders, then the untouchables who worked animal flesh. The people at a higher level were free to do whatever they wanted to the people at the lower levels.

The only thing I think the Tau have in common with historical caste systems is the word "caste". To my knowledge there has been no human society where people were born into a role but all roles were valued equally. The only thing the Tau have in common with a real world caste system is that they are born into a role, which is something that has been common with almost every fuedal society in human history. I just don't see anything particularly Asian in the Tau caste system.

How do you equate Tau to Roman ideology? (Honestly curious, as I see the Imperium as the obvious representative)

I see the Tau military methodology as being very Roman. The Tau regard their culture and technology as being the best in the known world, just like the Romans. The Tau desire to expand their territory first by offering their technology and culture in exchange for native peoples of the desired region swearing obedience to the Tau. If that doesn't work, the Tau conquer with their very advanced and disciplined military force. Tau Fire Caste warriors, just like Roman Legionnaires, believe one particular method of combat is proper and train and excel in that form to the exclusion of others. To make up for that focus, the Tau like the Romans recruit Auxilliary units from the frontier alien/barbarian regions they conquer and use the strengths of those people to augment their own troops. The Imperium of Man, on the other hand, is only superficially Roman. Ultramarines may have leather strappy pants over their armour, but that doesn't make them Romans. When Romans conquered a territory they took slaves, took booty, and then set about "civilizing" the local populace into Roman ways, even if the local "barbarians" seemed utterly alien to Romans. When the Imperium conquers new territory, they exterminate any locals who are not already pretty easy to adapt into Imperial rule.

According to Games Workshop, High Gothic is not Latin. Latin is just used to represent to us what High Gothic would sound like to common people. High Gothic was derived from the most common languages spoken on Holy Terra, which means there's a very good chance that High Gothic has some very distant Chinese roots. For maximum "accuracy", all the Imperials should speak with Chinese accents, and the Tau should speak with Roman accents!

Valhallan42nd wrote:Giant Robots and Anime style armor on their foot troopers.

Japanese foot troopers have never used Giant Robots or anime-style armor. The JSDF is well-equipped, but not that well-equipped.

The tau ranking system sounds to western ears like a far eastern dialect.

Which far-eastern dialect is that?

According to Games Workshop, High Gothic is not Latin. Latin is just used to represent to us what High Gothic would sound like to common people. High Gothic was derived from the most common languages spoken on Holy Terra, which means there's a very good chance that High Gothic has some very distant Chinese roots. For maximum "accuracy", all the Imperials should speak with Chinese accents, and the Tau should speak with Roman accents!

Does that mean the Emperor is owned by Weyland-Yutani?

JOHIRA wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:Giant Robots and Anime style armor on their foot troopers.

Japanese foot troopers have never used Giant Robots or anime-style armor. The JSDF is well-equipped, but not that well-equipped.

The tau ranking system sounds to western ears like a far eastern dialect.

Which far-eastern dialect is that?

But Japanese foot soldiers did wear over size shoulder protection until at least the 1400's. Ignoring that is kind of like ignoring the influence western historical armors have made on Space Marine armor. The banded protection of the mark 2 crusade armor is a partial nod to lorca segmentum, and the mark 2 and 3 helmets are a nod to 13th century pot helms.

To me, it sounds like someone took Mandarin and Hindi and put them in a blender.

And of course we recognize that the JSDF have not yet developed transforming exosuits. But you are gilding the lily if you tell me that Crisis suit were not insipired by things like Macross, Evangelion, Gundam, etc.

Hrm... i guess no one has played Firewarrior (not that I blame them; it wasn't a great game). Nor has anyone played dawn of war...

Firewarrior used a pretty poor Asian accent to represent the Tau. Dawn of war ran it through a voice distortion tool to make it more alien. You can still tell its origins, however.

If the OP wants to continue in the tradition of what's been established, more power to him.

I also enjoy the british (I don't know the region) accent of the Imperial Guard, as well as the orks. I don't think less of anyone across the pond because their accent was bastardized in the ork language.


sheesh... For all the cankerous nature of Dakka in comparison to other sites, there certainly are a lot of over-sensitive people here...

Valhallan42nd wrote:The tau ranking system sounds to western ears like a far eastern dialect.

Which far-eastern dialect is that?

But Japanese foot soldiers did wear over size shoulder protection until at least the 1400's. Ignoring that is kind of like ignoring the influence western historical armors have made on Space Marine armor.

One portion of a piece of armour does not a race make.

And of course we recognize that the JSDF have not yet developed transforming exosuits. But you are gilding the lily if you tell me that Crisis suit were not insipired by things like Macross, Evangelion, Gundam, etc.

I see very little connection between Crisis suits and these three things, actually. There is no connection with Crisis Suits and Evangelion mechas certainly, and Macross and Gundam suits have stylistic flourishes that have no counterpart on Tau equipment. The Tau design aesthetic seems to be "boxy with rounded corners". Just because it's a large robot does not make it an anime giant robot. Even if the Tau were anime-inspired, it is still lazy characterization to portray the Tau as Asians.

Geddonight wrote:Hrm... i guess no one has played Firewarrior (not that I blame them; it wasn't a great game). Nor has anyone played dawn of war...

You're right, I haven't. Those games have been hard to track down over here. In any case, they weren't made by GW. The Medusa Campaign trailers were made by GW, and in those trailers the Tau do not speak "Asian".

there certainly are a lot of over-sensitive people here...

Come now, I've taken some pains not to insult anyone, even if they disagree with me. Please don't lower the tone by tossing out personal attacks just because you don't agree with my opinion.

Eldramesha wrote:It's also consistent with the rest of the portrayals of Tau in electronic media that they have a somewhat stereotypical east asian accent but I don't think its racist.

I agree. It's a perfectly reasonable request, when you consider that, IIRC, in games like Fire Warrior the Tau already have what can only be described as a 'generic east asian accent'!

Vorwärts! Zum Angriff Männer! Das Gebiet muss gesichert werden - im Namen des Imperators!

His Master's Voice wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Tau aren't "another race" (they'd be another *species*, for the biologically ignorant), and stereotyping them with a "Far East Asian voice" is definitely racist.

No, this is what happens when you eat to much Political Correctness Cereal (with Vitamins) for breakfast.

Racism is when you belch 6 million people through the crematorium chimney just because you want to steal their money.

I think the total is now 7 million and rising each year in the name of sensationalism.....

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yeah but the non-Americans probably wouldn't know that.

I mean, you watch V for Vendetta, and the mask and costume makes *NO* sense whatsoever...

Pu-lease. Is this going to be about culture?

Here we have part of the english and american history taught, even the Guy Fawkes' bit. And I knew about Henry (though also thanks to Superman :p)

Apart from that and no offense to Johira, why is it that bad for Tau to have eastern asian accents? I believe GW itself cited the influence of Japan on the Tau (I'm no expert, but they mentioned Ashigaru troops?) and Anime coming as an influence. Even if not, what's the problem?

This image shows (albeit badly) two japanese style swords (Daishi?). Certainly some Japanese influence is patent in the Tau.

But racism, at least for me, as a lot more going that asking for an asian accent for a computer game. Racism is about discrimination, humiliating someone, certain attitudes et al. Just because someone sees the Tau as oriental doesn't mean they're narrow-minded or are racist.

I doubt anyone from the Iberian peninsula were offended by the Crimson Fists' latin names (Pedro Cantor, for example). This is just taking things too far.

A nugget of wisdom from Warseer, from John Wayne II, I think, who said that the only types of jokes allowed were about white caucasian males.

Valhallan42nd wrote:
And of course we recognize that the JSDF have not yet developed transforming exosuits. But you are gilding the lily if you tell me that Crisis suit were not insipired by things like Macross, Evangelion, Gundam, etc.

Of course...and Starship Troopers had nothing to do with it either.