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i don't know why everyone is scared of special characters, i played a 2000 point game agaisnt ultramainrs and calger was fighting too, i swamped him with gaunts and destroyed the rest of his army. simple, every army has a way to deal with SC, you just have to figure it out

One problem that is a factor in the rise of special characters in games is that GWS is cutting back on the level of diversity characters were once capable of achieving while making special characters noticeable superior and available. It used to be that special characters added a minor rule or quirk to the game – not that they where far elevated above the other characters of their type.

Armament once allowed for standard characters is now not. Lovingly converted figures are no longer WYSIWYG, but they can now be used to represent special characters:

“My converted two -power clawed sorcerer lord for the emperor’s children is now obsolete, guess I will just play him as Abaddon or Huron in my armies.” - to give a hypothetical example. The temptation to use special characters that more accurately represent old models then the standard codex varity is GWS fault for not allowing more flexible characters and making the special character vastly superior to their common alternate.

There are two views on how games of 40K interact with the "fluff"

One view has the people who want to field a legendary army with a named hero, like Eldred or Belial. These players like the idea of playing a famous chapter/craftworld/clan that fits into the fluff.

The other view is for people who want to field their own chapter/craftworld/clan. These people can make their own generic heroes, or use the counts as option to field a unique special character.

Both of these views are equally valid. Some like it one way and some like it the other way. The current SC system allows for this to work, and I think its pretty good and balanced at this point.

Completely gameplay wise, to quote a user on another board:

"Well, it would be nice to have a "generic" HQ that can rock the house like other codex HQ's without having to resort to the use of "special" characters."

I hate it when special characters are clearly superior to the generic hq models. Eldrad being a prime example (I hate this guy!).

Same with special characters being mandatory for certain builds as H.B.M.C already pointed out. This leads directly to the point where everyones chapter master is superspacemarineleader xy and not the generic one.

I think the characters in fantasy are a bit better in this area. If you take one, you have many advantages but also downsides. Not being able to choose magic items as one example, which is pretty obsolete in 40k.

Greets
Schepp himself

i dont really like the counts as rule for special characters
there supposed to be unique to the army they are in

The reason why GW promotes special characters is because the models are expensive. Commander Shadowsun is £15, so is Farsight. Space Pope is £20. (Has anyone bought Space Pope BTW?)

I don't mind special characters until they become too powerful. If it goes too far there isn't any point having an army. That's why I gave up Warhammer FB in 2nd edition.

the new sqout lt oke in low point he is only 50 pnt but al the rest I wil only feald in apoc but I like yousing specials cars. alwayse use Marneus Calgar in apoc.
but than thats always 5000 or more points I feald .
I only use the specials thas 5 special more than unufe for 1 army

In a state of constant galactic warfare where billions fight and die in wars spanning ten of thousands of light years apart the same characters constantly bump into each other. I wonder how many times Eldard and Tigurius just stood on their adjacent battlefields staring at each other thinking “Him again?”

In Eldrad's case, he probably new it would happen, or made sure it would happen.

But I know what you mean.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:In Eldrad's case, he probably new it would happen, or made sure it would happen.

In that case I wonder if he is secretly in love with Tigurius - It would at least explain why they are always bumping into each other.

Grunt13 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:In Eldrad's case, he probably new it would happen, or made sure it would happen.

In that case I wonder if he is secretly in love with Tigurius - It would at least explain why they are always bumping into each other.

In the Grim Darkness of the forty-first millenium, there is only homo-erotic, inter-racial psyker love . . .

In the Grim Darkness of the forty-first millenium, there is only homo-erotic, inter-racial psyker love . . .

havent seen something this funny in ages XD

Kilkrazy wrote:The reason why GW promotes special characters is because the models are expensive. Commander Shadowsun is £15, so is Farsight. Space Pope is £20. (Has anyone bought Space Pope BTW?)

I don't mind special characters until they become too powerful. If it goes too far there isn't any point having an army. That's why I gave up Warhammer FB in 2nd edition.

Yep, have you seen how much Ghazkhull is? The GW purse string holders must have been hopping up and down with glee after the Amageddon release and they sold thouasands of Dreadnought sized warbosses to every Ork dude in the land (except me, I don't care how killy he is, everyone's got one, what's the point?)

I'm surprised they haven't made and released a Wazzdakka model, that would no doubt fly off the shelves too, and coming with a custom big bike would be pretty easy for them to justify a silly price on.

I'm sure when I last read a codex (years ago, waiting for the new ones to arrive) there were notes under each character saying "SC xx can only be fielded in an army of 2000pts or more" or "an army including SC xx MUST have the following core units: xx xx xx" Has that goen in 5th Ed?

I think the new Marine codex has got the right way of doing special characters. You have a lot of options, tons more than your 2 HQ slots, so a lot of people will do different things, and a lot of them either provide something that nothing else can do, or else change the army in some way to make it work a little differently.

The problem with guys like Eldrad is that he doesn't do anything different than a normal Farseer can do (other than little things like Divination), it's mostly just that he does it so much better. He comes with every single option the Farseer can take (except a jetbike), casts more powers, better toughness, better save, power weapon... AND he's actually cheaper than a normal Farseer would be if you gave him all the equipment Eldrad has (that he can actually take)... and Eldrad would still be significantly better. Other than the jetbike option, or the super-cheap Farseer to be a source of RoWarding, there is basically no reason to take a regular farseer instead. Those are the special characters that are kinda dumb, because they just obsolete a regular HQ option.

Most of the SM guys don't do that, although I think you'll see the same thing happen with the Librarians. There'll be very little point in taking a regular librarian when you can get Tigurius.

Special characters add shape, looks anda theme to most armies, while some offer them a chance to change the general structure of that army.
i love it, i dont see why someone would have a problem with loads of special characters, its variety.
and lets face it, most special characters look wicked

H.B.M.C. wrote:What exactly was stopping you from doing that with a regular Librarian?

It actually makes less sense that you'd take a special character with the intention to use him as someone other than who he is.

Isn't that what standard characters are for?

BYE

While I hate how Marneus and Tigurius have been poached so much for everyone and their little sister's DIY chapter- in this case I agree with him. He should be able to take either Ezekiel, Mephiston, or Tigurius(Well maybe a minorly modified Zeke or Mephiston) and use him as a Blood Raven's Librarian special character. If they're supposed to be heavily influenced by having some of the best librarians around, they should have some of the best librarians around...

For the same reason I have issues with mixing and matching a Counts As Marneus with a Counts as Samael, and a Counts As Mephiston, I'd hate to see a Counts as Kharne with a Counts as Ahriman. I wouldn't like to see mix and match armies. I don't even like the idea of a Counts as Marneus and a Counts as Lysander in the same army.