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Anarchyman99 wrote:

MinMax wrote:

Anarchyman99 wrote:Why can't you use Star Engine and where does it say max S9?

It isn't max Strength 9. I don't know where that came from!

You can't use Star Engines, though. Tank Shocking, and thus Ramming, can only be done in the Movement phase. Star Engines are activated in the Shooting Phase, which you'll note is not the Movement Phase.

It just says "It may an additional 12" in lieu of shooting, but troops may not embark or disembark that turn." Thats the last line. It never says that the additional 12" is moved in the shooting phase. Also if you think about it all embarking and disembarking happens in the movement phase, so yet another reason that the 12" is in the movement phase....not the shooting.

Take a look at the Eldar Faq.

At the time of posting 2:38am GW site is messed up and I didn't get to look at the FAQ

Anarchyman99 wrote:At the time of posting 2:38am GW site is messed up and I didn't get to look at the FAQ

Yeah the US GW site is crap, I actually looked up the Faq on the UK site.

Thanks for the info on that.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Stelek wrote:
You cannot safely use them as transports to zoom forward anymore...

I've seen you refer to this more than once (do I detect a note of bitterness ), Stelek. I have a question.

Is it because, with the "glancing only" rule removed in 5th ed, the falcons/serpents can't weather a turn of fire at point-blank range before the passengers disembark/move/fleet/assault?

Or is this something that you believed was also true in 4th ed?

I'm interested in the answer because I did routinely use falcons & serpents safely as transports for assault troops in 4th edition. I haven't had a chance to try it yet in 5th and want to find out if it has changed. It seems like maybe losing the entanglement rules would actually make them work better, but like I say I haven't tried it yet.

Overall in my experience Falcon usually still makes it to it's mark, but it's not as tough as it once was.

I think I'm at 3/4 times successfully deployments for my Firedragons. Usually speeding to the other side gives you a 4+ cover save and imo that can be huge. After you're over there... you tend to draw a ton of fire.

I've used the troops inside to capture scoring points a ton (it's fun) and the Falcon then draws a ton of fire. Took 12 pens one game to finally drop the falcon (it had no weapons left!). Of course the very next game, Falcon was killed first shot (damn double 5's).

Anyway I think the Falcon is still very playable but you do have to think a ton now about where to move, how much to move etc (and just what the best option is).

Weapon pay out... so far I've been running mostly Scatter (Low BS3 likes me lots of shots) and have been skipping the undergun to cut down on costs. I find that I'm often moving fast enough that I get just the single weapon + defensive. O' and I have grabbed a Starcannon for a few instead of the scatter, but that was mostly knowing a high chance of fighting Tau suit army (or termies).

After reading here, I'll have to try going double shuken cannons and see how that preforms :-)

-Jara

PS: I should also add that for what ever reason I've not been running into opponents with tons of melta's, but Stelek is totally correct when it comes to those (I try to stay away if possible) and take what ever has them out from range before engaging. Or... if they only have a single one, ignore it and charge in for the FD drop off...

Thanks for the info, Jara. I'm glad this thread happened before I started pulling weapons off my falcon models--I think I'll leave them as they are. I'm also noticing (with wave serpents, which I've had a chance to try) that you have to think more about where you move to get cover saves, unlike the old days when you could just go wherever and always get glancing-only.

I was also thinking and checking rules the other day and realized that a farseer's fortune applies to cover saves on vehicles too. So depending how the "using powers from inside a transport" rules pan out, it would be possible to upgrade a falcon by putting in a farseer with fortune. In a mechanized army where falcons are primarily transports and farseers on foot aren't useful anyway, that might be a worthwhile investment...

RE: Farseer in a Falcon.

What would be the arguement that the Farseer cannot cast Fortune from inside the tank? The only debate I've encountered stems from the 4th ed FAQ for the rulebook, which no longer applies. I've had some grumbles about it, but it seems like units inside tanks still function in some capacity:

From what I understand, it appears clear it can occur.

Cast at beginning of Eldar turn-check
Cast on a unit within 6" of the vehicle-check (Farseer inside tank or casting on another tank w/i 6" of the hull of the tank the Farseer occupies)
Get to re-roll saves, which a cover save applies.

Are there any other specific issues regarding the validity of the ruling other than opponent gripes?

Curious as I have a tourney tomorrow and plan on utelizing this.

Just whining, sarigar.

So long as you are on the table at the start of your turn, you can cast most powers without hindrance. This includes all psykers, not just some.

I think by the RAW it's correct that farseers should be able to cast fortune, guide and doom from inside a transport.

I think that there's still a certain amount of player resistance to that reading, though, for historical reasons, and that in a tournament especially you might encounter a judge who rules the other way. Especially if you start trying, for example, to doom a unit with 24" of the transport with the farseer in it.

If it eventually works out that people adjust to the ruling or that it's FAQd, then it makes a great alternative to the jetbike seer. It also gives Eldrad a whole new utility (imagine a pair of falcons zooming around, continuously fortuned by Eldrad riding in one of them, or picture Eldrad dooming a huge ork mob from inside his transport at the start of the turn, then disembarking and dropping a pair of eldritch storm templates on them. Hehehe.)

Flavius Infernus wrote:Thanks for the info, Jara. I'm glad this thread happened before I started pulling weapons off my falcon models--I think I'll leave them as they are. I'm also noticing (with wave serpents, which I've had a chance to try) that you have to think more about where you move to get cover saves, unlike the old days when you could just go wherever and always get glancing-only.

I was also thinking and checking rules the other day and realized that a farseer's fortune applies to cover saves on vehicles too. So depending how the "using powers from inside a transport" rules pan out, it would be possible to upgrade a falcon by putting in a farseer with fortune. In a mechanized army where falcons are primarily transports and farseers on foot aren't useful anyway, that might be a worthwhile investment...

I highly recommend magnetizing them :-) Makes it really easy to swap for what ever weapon load out you need :-)

It's not too hard to do either with the right tools; Dremel, drill bit the exact size of the magnets and of course some good quality magnets.

I recommend: http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/index.htm

Good prices, fast shipping and high quality.

-------------------------

When it comes to Farseers in a vehicle and using fortune, to get that cover save you need to go flat out (greater than 12") and that means no weapons can be shot. So imo that role is much better off for a Wave Serpent and hence that is my ride of choice for my Farseers.

-Jara

PS: I suppose if you have some good terrain to hide behind it could benefit from a Farseer. That sort of fits nicely with a 5 man DA team for scoring as well ;-) Granted it's a pricey upgrade for the total package. But if going that route I'd be tempted to choose Guide over Fortune and just rely on cover/holo field for survival...

I ran my mech eldar list for the first time in 5th in a 2000pt game the other night.

I ran 1 falcon and 2 prisms as well as 3 waveserpents.

The Falcon load out was - vectored engines, spirit stones, holo fields, scatter laser and shurican (had 13pts left at the end of making the list). This was a transport for Eldrad and 5 warlocks.

With the ability of Eldrad to fortune the Falcon and fortune the passengers (in case the worst happens) and then the ability to claim a 4+ cover save from moving more than 12".

This makes for an extremely resiliant unit going wherever you want it. It can kill tanks with witch blades or kill infantry with destructor.

Before Eldrad and co pop out and go to do their business you can guide the Falcon to improve it's shooting.

I found this combo to be extremely useful and very resilient even though it is pricey.

I'm not saying that this is the best seer council, bikes are probably better. I don't have the models to run this type so I can't comment.

The prisms I ran had Spirit stones, holo fields and shuricans. I didn't give them vectored engines as I figured that if they were firing they weren't moving quick enough to end up dead (unlike the Falcon).

I found this to be an extremely effective combination of Eldar tanks and the equipment load out were very useful.

IMHO