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So you pay $25 and you get a T-shirt for it.

vhwolf wrote:"I now can take registration. I want to make as big a profit off of this as possible, so this year there is a $25 entry fee but with that you recieve a special ard boyz tournament t shirt that cost me about $5 to have made.

Fixed the quote.

Wanna take bets on what he'd say if you asked to play for FREE and let him keep the shirt?

Eric

Reminds me of those old eBay scams to get around the illegal sale items policy. Minimum bid of $500 for this piece of cardboard--comes with a free epic World of Warcraft account!

MagickalMemories wrote:

vhwolf wrote:"I now can take registration. I want to make as big a profit off of this as possible, so this year there is a $25 entry fee but with that you recieve a special ard boyz tournament t shirt that cost me about $5 to have made.

Fixed the quote.

Wanna take bets on what he'd say if you asked to play for FREE and let him keep the shirt?

Eric

Before we randomly slag store owners off that we don't know and unfairly put words in their mouth, perhaps a simple phone call to the establishment is in order?

Aduro wrote:Hmmmmm, only two locations in Iowa, one of which is in a city I don't think I've ever heard of. I fear it may get crowded at my FLGS.

The other one is a sprawl style suburb on the north side of Cedar Rapids. It's decent store. They have an instore bit box, which was my favorite reason to go their when I lived in Iowa City.


On another note for the GW web team; Knightfall Games in in Beaverton, OREGON and not PA.

That is weird. The shirts are free and GW is also nice enough to kick in the three prize support for the tourney. (Battle force, $40 box and $20(?) box)

I hope the prize support for that is even more than that if the guy is charging $25 a head. Understandable to make a couple bucks off of the event, but the prizes he lists for what he is charging is quite insane.

MagickalMemories wrote:

vhwolf wrote:"I now can take registration. I want to make as big a profit off of this as possible, so this year there is a $25 entry fee but with that you recieve a special ard boyz tournament t shirt that cost me about $5 to have made.

Fixed the quote.

Wanna take bets on what he'd say if you asked to play for FREE and let him keep the shirt?

Eric

The quote I put up was the exact copied and pasted qoute. Please don't put words in my mouth and get people furious at me. I do see that as of now the store has changed it to be free with a $15.00 charge for the t-shirts. This was changed at 8:23 p.m. or 4 min ago. So they are running it as per the rules.

Hellfury wrote:That is weird. The shirts are free ,,,,.

Nope. To run the tournament, stores had to pay 75.00 for a set of 10 t-shirts. (Very hefty gamer sizes of course.) Most shops are charging 10.00 to 15.00 on the t-shirts.

25.00 did sound like a bit much to charge though.

vhwolf wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:

vhwolf wrote:"I now can take registration. I want to make as big a profit off of this as possible, so this year there is a $25 entry fee but with that you recieve a special ard boyz tournament t shirt that cost me about $5 to have made.

Fixed the quote.

Wanna take bets on what he'd say if you asked to play for FREE and let him keep the shirt?

Eric

The quote I put up was the exact copied and pasted qoute. Please don't put words in my mouth and get people furious at me. I do see that as of now the store has changed it to be free with a $15.00 charge for the t-shirts. This was changed at 8:23 p.m. or 4 min ago. So they are running it as per the rules.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth. You misunderstand.
It was a sarcastic way of making a point as to what the guy is DOING, regardless of what he's saying.

The more you hang out, the more oftey you'll see it.


Also:

Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Before we randomly slag store owners off that we don't know and unfairly put words in their mouth, perhaps a simple phone call to the establishment is in order?

That comment wasn't random. It was quite pointed, in fact... and I stick behind it. Charging $25, $20, $15... or ANYTHING more than what he paid for the shirts is, in my opinion (which is what I was giving), despicable.

He's getting FREE prize support and a store full of gamers (who have a reputation for spending money willy-nilly, as a whole) for running the event, not to mention the free advertisement from GW all over the place. Trying to double-dip is atrocious.

I'd bet that, without the entry fee, he STILL comes out way ahead in daily sales compared to his average Saturday.

Eric

mikhaila wrote:

Hellfury wrote:That is weird. The shirts are free ,,,,.

Nope. To run the tournament, stores had to pay 75.00 for a set of 10 t-shirts. (Very hefty gamer sizes of course.) Most shops are charging 10.00 to 15.00 on the t-shirts.

25.00 did sound like a bit much to charge though.

Okay. So, presuming that to be true, I maintain that ANY charge for the tourney over $7.50 is ridiculous... and that is assuming they get a shirt for their $7.50, too.

Eric

It's a store, in a difficult niche market, in a difficult economy. They do have to do work. They do need to make money. And getting a few bucks off the t-shirts is a nice little bit of change. I think $10 is a nice cheap price for a shirt, and $15 is reasonable too.* More than that would feel a bit shady to me, unless the owner were adding additional prize support. Glad to see the he's adjusted it.

*But then, I'm one of those guys who prefers buying at a store which provides gaming space rather than saving money online.

MagickalMemories wrote:

vhwolf wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:

vhwolf wrote:"I now can take registration. I want to make as big a profit off of this as possible, so this year there is a $25 entry fee but with that you recieve a special ard boyz tournament t shirt that cost me about $5 to have made.

Fixed the quote.

Wanna take bets on what he'd say if you asked to play for FREE and let him keep the shirt?

Eric

The quote I put up was the exact copied and pasted qoute. Please don't put words in my mouth and get people furious at me. I do see that as of now the store has changed it to be free with a $15.00 charge for the t-shirts. This was changed at 8:23 p.m. or 4 min ago. So they are running it as per the rules.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth. You misunderstand.
It was a sarcastic way of making a point as to what the guy is DOING, regardless of what he's saying.

The more you hang out, the more oftey you'll see it.

I understand that you were not trying to put words into my mouth. I have actually been comeing around this community for about 4 years now I just don't post here very often because I find it to be a very rude community overall, so I did understand your intention. The problem was that the people who just came here to find out what was said saw your edit and did not know that these were not what I wrote and so to them it looks like instead of letting GW know about a problem it looks like I was going around stateing that they were greedy SOBs.

I would not have used the power of a public forum to address this issue if GW actually did anything about the things that go on in that store when they are told about them privatly, unfortunatly they have not in the past three years (the manager has some good connections)and the local game community has suffered for it. I am desperatly trying to rebuild the community so I try not to anger the players who like one place or another by trash talking about them. This is the reason I posted the above so that people who do not know this community knew that I was just copying the exact statement and not makeing any personal judgements.

So, presuming that to be true, I maintain that ANY charge for the tourney over $7.50 is ridiculous... and that is assuming they get a shirt for their $7.50, too.

Eric
Your opinion, and you're welcome to keep it. But it does show the ignorance on your part of the economics of running a store. I'm charging 15.00 per shirt at my shop.

Every single day, a store has to make a certain amount of sales just to pay the rent and other fixed costs. Tournaments actually lose me money. On non tournament days, I have 20-40 gamers come in to play. We also run a painting class, and leagues. For the 'Ardboyz tournament, we won't be able to do the class or league, or offer open gaming. We'll have the 16 players in the tournament, and some casual shoppers. We'll end the day doing less in GW than either week before or after. This is from 20 years of experience and sales figures.

Any other item that we sell in the store, we make a profit off of. That profit goes to paying the bills. Bills don't get paid, store goes away. The shirts werent' free, and we were required to buy them. If I have to buy them, and sell them, I need to mark them up.

Profit isn't ridiculous, or evil, or gouging the gamers. It's what keeps the store open. Profit lets me provide 8 gaming tables, and a storeroom full of scenery. It let's us do painting classes, and scenery workshops. It pays the bills of my employees. Usually, (but not always) lets me take home a paycheck to feed my family.

I've had shops for 20 years. Every year I make less than the average business student makes in his first couple of years out of college. Every year I wonder if I shouldn't dump the stores, and use the two degrees that I earned before opening them. I'd work 40 hours a week, not 70. My family would be better off.The gamers in the area sure wouldn't.

Usually I get these thoughts after someone makes a statement about like yours, stating how 'ridiculous' it is, trying to actually make a 'profit'.

I wish I lived in Philly.

mikhaila wrote: So, presuming that to be true, I maintain that ANY charge for the tourney over $7.50 is ridiculous... and that is assuming they get a shirt for their $7.50, too.

Eric
Your opinion, and you're welcome to keep it.

Considering the flag next to my name, and the nature of a discusion forum, I'm also as welcome to give it as you are to give the following assumption.

mikhaila wrote:But it does show the ignorance on your part of the economics of running a store.

Or, perhaps, ignorance in assuming someone who is dismissive of price gouging doesn't know how to run a store. I've been quite closely associated with running small, privately owned shops. Not a gaming shop, but not so different. I spent the first years of my working "career" learning about sales and costs, wholesale prices vs. retail, bulk discounts... I knew, day to day, exactly how much money the store had to bring in that day to break even. I knew what MY sales needed to be to "do my part."
While I may not know the exact markup on each gaming line, I do know markup... and I know what it pays for.

"The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed," is the definition of ignorance. All 3 of which you previously were in relation to my own experience. Interesting.

mikhaila wrote:Because I'm charging 15.00 per shirt at my shop.

Let me ask; Did GW require you to buy these shirts? Was it a condition of having the 'Ardboyz tourney at your store? Are you charging for the *shirt* or are you charging to get in the tourney and throwing the shirt in with it? I have NO problem with selling the shirts. I have NO problem with selling them at a 100% (traditional) mark up. What I DO have a problem with is requiring the purchase of a shirt/paying of a fee to enter this tournament. It is not being billed as *that sort* of tournament.
If you ARE attaching the shirt to entry into the tournament, then what would *your* response be if someone wanted to let you keep the shirt, but play in the tourney for free?

mikhaila wrote:Every single day, a store has to make a certain amount of sales just to pay the rent and other fixed costs. Tournaments actually lose me money. On non tournament days, I have 20-40 gamers come in to play. We also run a painting class, and leagues. For the 'Ardboyz tournament, we won't be able to do the class or league, or offer open gaming. We'll have the 16 players in the tournament, and some casual shoppers. We'll end the day doing less in GW than either week before or after. This is from 20 years of experience and sales figures.

Wow. Don't know what you're doing wrong, then. Every store I've ever gamed in has seen a minimum 25% increase in overall sales comparable to similar non-tourney days.

mikhaila wrote:Any other item that we sell in the store, we make a profit off of. That profit goes to paying the bills. Bills don't get paid, store goes away. The shirts werent' free, and we were required to buy them. If I have to buy them, and sell them, I need to mark them up.

Okay. Answered the earlier question, then.
So, GW bullied you into buying the shirts. Is it safe to presume that it was a requirement for hosting the 'Ardboyz tournament?
Now, to cover the "sell them" part. Are you SELLING the shirt, or are you charging to enter the tournament and "throwing in" the shirt?
Or some other thing?

mikhaila wrote:Profit isn't ridiculous, or evil, or gouging the gamers. It's what keeps the store open. Profit lets me provide 8 gaming tables, and a storeroom full of scenery. It let's us do painting classes, and scenery workshops. It pays the bills of my employees. Usually, (but not always) lets me take home a paycheck to feed my family.

Again... aware of profit. If I HAD a LGS close enough, I'd play there. If I play there, I pay there. I'm no hypocrite. I reiterate, however. Regardless of what your assumptions are, my argument is NOT against profit.

mikhaila wrote:I've had shops for 20 years. Every year I make less than the average business student makes in his first couple of years out of college. Every year I wonder if I shouldn't dump the stores, and use the two degrees that I earned before opening them. I'd work 40 hours a week, not 70. My family would be better off.The gamers in the area sure wouldn't.

I don't accept this as logical support for anything you've said. I mean, I give you SERIOUS respect for hanging with it. I've seen LGS's close down. It blows. The owners had the SAME problems you're discussing. I think it's awesome that you are hanging with the labor of love.

For a moment, though, I'm going to separate my opinions from facts...
What you said is not good business sense (stress on business). If you can make more money for less hours.. THAT is good business sense.

Again, I'm not disrespecting you for the decision you made. In fact, as I said, I respect you for it. I just don't see an example of your emotion based decisions supporting a fact based "argument."

mikhaila wrote:Usually I get these thoughts after someone makes a statement about like yours, stating how 'ridiculous' it is, trying to actually make a 'profit'.

Again... my problem is not with making a profit. It's with charging for something that I FEEL should be free under the guise of something else.
I HOPE you make a profit on your sales. I hope you make a dang good one. I want you to stay in business. Big box stores and the internet are putting too many LGS's out of business.

I don't want to derail this thread any further. If you want to keep discussing the OT parts privately, I'm more than happy to. I have always found you to be reasonable and personable, so would welcome it (provided you also understand that I'm not bashing you). Like I said, though, I just don't want to continue it here and cause the thread to be closed.

I'm still more than happy to debate the "shirts" issue openly, as it is still on topic with the thread.

vhwolf wrote:I understand that you were not trying to put words into my mouth

Then, you shouldn't have said:

vhwolf wrote:Please don't put words in my mouth and get people furious at me.

I would have a hard time believing ANYONE reading that, who also ready your post, thought YOU said it, when I specified that I "fixed" it.

Eric

vhwolf wrote:I understand that you were not trying to put words into my mouth

Then, you shouldn't have said:

vhwolf wrote:Please don't put words in my mouth and get people furious at me.

I would have a hard time believing ANYONE reading that, who also ready your post, thought YOU said it, when I specified that I "fixed" it.

Eric

I hope I can buy a shirt so i can wear it to work to keep my nickname of Nerdberg

Stelek wrote:Utah seems setup correctly.

Purple Dragon Games is listed with the wrong address. The correct address is 1126 E 3300 S.

when are the semi final locations going to be posted? Us west coast people can get really hosed on driving so it would be good to know.