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Yup. If I hadn't gotten SO DAMNED TIRED of cleaning mold lines off 'stealer arms before the LVGT, I'd put a few more together and try it.

I helped a friend construct/build his Shock army and now I find myself hoping I don't have to face it in any of the rounds? Best I can hope for is that he doesn't take my advice on a few things and builds it different than I suggested.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Janthkin wrote:It's not normal Dawn of War - you deploy ALL Troops and HQs. Which means if you're going second against the ork horde, you're screwed - you've got 6" of table to work with, and nothing else.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the scenario says that the "Reserves" rule is in effect? That rule allows you to opt to keep anything you want in reserve? So you could theoretically deploy nothing?

Maybe, however the way I'm reading scenario 2 and 3 says deploy all troops and HQ choices, not "you may deploy all troops and HQ choices"

Yeah, RAW wise, I don't see an option of using reserves for troops in these two scenarios (unless a codex states that a troop always has an option of using reserves...can't think of one of the top of my head). This looks to shut down the outflank ability for troops who have infiltrate or scout.

The rulebook does say that all types of missions always have the Reserves rule in effect, and that any unit can be held in reserve, but the 'Ardboyz rules are pretty vague. It's pretty shoddy that they seem to be changing established mission rules, but not being very clear about pertinent details.

Biophysic wrote:The rulebook does say that all types of missions always have the Reserves rule in effect, and that any unit can be held in reserve, but the 'Ardboyz rules are pretty vague. It's pretty shoddy that they seem to be changing established mission rules, but not being very clear about pertinent details.

QFT. These things were put together with bad proofing. It's a case of the author knowing what he meant, and not knowing that they were not as clear as they thought.

speaking of that - the first scenario says deployment as in main rulebook and then it has "Who goes first?" rules. So we roll for deployment and then roll again to see how goes first? That could really suck. Or do we assume that having the "Who Goes First?" rule is crappy cutting and pasting and we follow the rules in the book for spearhead (deploy first, go first, seize initiative in effect)?

wyomingfox wrote:Yeah, RAW wise, I don't see an option of using reserves for troops in these two scenarios (unless a codex states that a troop always has an option of using reserves...can't think of one of the top of my head). This looks to shut down the outflank ability for troops who have infiltrate or scout.

Both the Spearhead and Pitched Battle scenarios in the rulebook say you deploy your force (rather than "you may deploy your force", or "you may deploy part of your force"). By this logic, one can only ever use the Reserves rule in Dawn of War missions, which is a rather silly conclusion.

Anyways, the Reserves rule very clearly states that when the rule is in effect you can choose not to deploy units:

When deploying their army, players may choose not to
deploy one or more of the units in their army and
instead leave them in reserve. Units in reserve will
become available in later turns of the game.

I don't see what the issue is. Special rule trumps general rule.

Because the wording in the 2nd and 3rd scenario has special (like special olypics ) wording "Deploy all troops and HQ". Scenario rules trump Special rules trump General rule. In the end it depends how the tourney man will interpret the scenario rules and I am sure some if not most will side with Danny. I don't care as it won't change my build either way. Expect the some Rules Lawyering though .

Its actually all troops and both HQs

Darn, beat me to it my own edit!

I guess the "deploy all troops" interp is going to fall to individual judges at different sites, then, on whether the "Reserves" rule trumps the scenario RAW. It won't make any particular difference to my army I think, but it would be nice to have the option open.

I notice the sloppiness also in the scenario that gives a bonus point for destroying the opponent's "highest scoring unit." I guess that phrase refers to my noise marines when they take their combat drugs.

OK got off the phone with Misty Mountains in Madison, WI and the owner said that he recieved a FAC from Games Workshop, I asked him to email it to me and this is what I recieved:

‘Ard Boyz Tournament Clarifications

Here’s some extra clarification about the missions and scoring for this years ‘Ardboyz 40k event.

General:
• Table size is standard 4’x6’
• Ardboyz doesn’t mean throw out the rulebook. You don’t use Apocalypse rules, and can’t use superheavies. You still need to use the FOC (and just 1 FOC!), and need to make a legal army.
• Game length is standard, as per the 5th edition rulebook. Roll at the end of turn 5 and 6 to end the game, as described in the rulebook on page 90.
• ‘Ardboyz is an open list tournament. Meaning that you should bring 4 copies of your list, and hand one over to each opponent if he wants one. Your opponent and you are both allowed to review each others’ lists, and ask questions, both before and during the game.
• Only one army list may be used during the tournament. Players may not adjust lists between games.

Scenarios:
• For Battle Point Modifiers in Scenario 1, replace ‘highest scoring unit’ with ‘unit with the highest points cost’.
• In scenario 1, ‘Reserves’ should be added to the special rules. (Can’t outflank or deepstrike if you can’t leave anything in reserve. )
• Don’t forget that missions 2 and 3 used ‘Dawn of War deployment’, and includes night fighting for turn 1.
• Under deployment in missions 2 and 3, the Note about deploying all troops and HQ choices does not mean you must deploy all your troops and HQ. You may still leave troops and HQ in reserve, as long as you still have at least 1 HQ and 2 troops choices on the table. You may leave units in reserve if you can legally do so. You may also leave them off the table, and not in reserve, to move on in turn 1 with the rest of your army, as per the scenario rules.

.

Killpoints:

KP for ‘Ardboyz are done differently than in the 5th edition rulebook. Instead of assigning KP by squad, they are assigned to each choice off the Force Organization Chart (FOC). If a choice on the FOC includes several parts, then KP are not earned until all parts of the choice are destroyed.

Example 1: An IG troop platoon of 1 Jr. command squad and two 10 man troop squads will earn a player 1 KP when all 3 squads are destroyed.

Example 2: A Space Marine Captain and his command squad will earn a player 3 KP when both the Captain and the command squad are dead.
Example 3: Three lictors taken as an elite choice will earn a player 2 KP when all 3 are dead.

Example 4: A space marine squad of 10 marines splits into two 5 man squads before deployment. Both 5 man squads need to be destroyed to earn the 1 KP they give up as a troops choice.

Example 5: A vehicle squadron of 3 sentinels taken as a fast attack choice is 2 kp when all 3 sentinels are destroyed.

Kill points per FOC choice:
HQ 3 Pts
Troops 1 Pt
Elite 2 Pts
Fast Attack 2 Pts
Heavy Support 2 Pts

• Dedicated transports do not provide Kill Points. They also do not have to be destroyed to earn the KP for the unit they transport. If the unit is destroyed, the KP are earned, regardless of the fate of the dedicated transport.
• Units that do not take up a spot on the FOC, such as Lesser Daemons and Chaos Spawn still count for KP. Check the relevant codex for how they are classified. In Codex:CSM Lesser Daemons are troops, Greater Daemons are HQ, and Spawn are fast attack.
• Some units can be used to create/spawn other models. Good examples are Biovores and Tomb Spiders. In these cases, ignore the created models as far as KP are concerned. Killing the swarm or sporemine is 0 KP. Killing the Biovore or Tomb Spider earns the player the KP regardless of what happens to the swarm/sporemine.
• Models with the ‘Advisor’ rule do not count for KP themselves. Consider them a squad upgrade for their assigned squads. If Commisars are taken under the IC doctrine, they count as an elite choice, and when all Commisars have been killed, count as 2 KP.
• Some units can be taken as different choices on the FOC. In this case, the players army list should reflect how they have been taken, and what they count as.

• Example 6: An Ork player takes an Ork Warboss as his HQ. This allows him to then take a unit or Ork nobz as either an elite or troops choice. If he takes them as an elite, they give up 2KP. If taken as a troops choice, they give up 1KP. In either case the nobz could take a dedicated transport of a battlewagon, which wouldn’t count for KP at all. .

Wow, did you post this in EVERY thread?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Yep. I have been reading all the separate posts and it seams even with Miks postings that there is still alot of doubt (I for one) that it is going to happen. So I went ahead and posted the emailed FAQ along with the store name so that people can at least contact the store themselves to confirm (if they want to). Sorry if it was overkill.