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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:As I once said in a Philsopohy class...

In a civilised world, certain freedom's must be surrendered for the good of the whole.

Ok, so you told your class about Utilitarianism and Pragmatism. Your teacher was probably well aware of them. I can't imagine they only covered this narrow band of philosophical thought in the class. Did you just latch on to that and ignore the other possibilities in the class? They are just one in a myriad of ideas. It makes me think of the students that come in thinking the Matrix was a radical idea only to learn that it is all old, old stuff, philosophically.

Right, so you are jumping to a conclusion about my entire philosophy course, based off something I said once during a lecture.....

I don't quite follow.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I don't quite follow.

This isn't surprising at all but I'll try my best.

You throw out someone else's idea like it was your own and also say it as if you have some kind of authority in the area just becuase you cribbed other peoples ideas and recited them for people who had already heard them.

As I once said in a Math class...

In a civilized world, A squared plus B Squared equals C squared.

I didn't say anthing about that.

I simply posted up my own worldview, and you jumped down my throat about it assuming I'm pig ignorant.

Sorry if my life experience differs from yours. I'm clearly a cretin, and shall remove myself and bloodline from the genepool posthaste.

Wow, Ahtman, I have one question for you. What is it like to know everything? The tenor of your arguments is so negative, it makes one question anything you have to say. You are apparently so proud of your open minded approach to life, maybe you should infuse a little humility into your existence to help counter that arrogance.

ixlar wrote:Wow, Ahtman, I have one question for you. What is it like to know everything? The tenor of your arguments is so negative, it makes one question anything you have to say. You are apparently so proud of your open minded approach to life, maybe you should infuse a little humility into your existence to help counter that arrogance.

Is it fun to be judgmental about someone because you think they are judgmental? Is it tough to being a hypocrite or are you in denial about it?

I don't know everything and have never stated such a thing. Someone appearing knowledgeable makes you want to not hear what they have to say? Now, you may enjoy your anti-intellectual stance, but when you get to post-secondary education you may want to rethink telling anyone that knows something that you don't like them because they know something and aren't afraid to act as such.

I wasn't being judgemental in the least though.

As you might have guessed, I never did finish that Philosophy Course, and the Students that did all failed, as apparently, we'd been taught completely the wrong curriculum, and badly at that.

But as I said, for not agreeing with *your* World View, I am currently cleansing the taint of my genetic heritage from the world. Shame I've such a big family, I'd been done in a minute if I was an only child of only children.

Ahtman wrote: Is it fun to be judgmental about someone because you think they are judgmental? Is it tough to being a hypocrite or are you in denial about it?
I don't know everything and have never stated such a thing. Someone appearing knowledgeable makes you want to not hear what they have to say?

LOL...wow, you appear knowledgeable? Try again. Blinded by ego and hate, would be closer to the truth I think. See, it is easy to be vicious and mean. It is too bad that you can't make your points without the hate.

Ahtman wrote: Now, you may enjoy your anti-intellectual stance, but when you get to post-secondary education you may want to rethink telling anyone that knows something that you don't like them because they know something and aren't afraid to act as such.

That isn't what I said or implied. But thank you for making my point again. I look forward to your next vicious tirade.

Is it fun to be judgmental about someone because you think they are judgmental? Is it tough to being a hypocrite or are you in denial about it?

I don't know everything and have never stated such a thing. Someone appearing knowledgeable makes you want to not hear what they have to say? Now, you may enjoy your anti-intellectual stance, but when you get to post-secondary education you may want to rethink telling anyone that knows something that you don't like them because they know something and aren't afraid to act as such.

Knowing something is different from knowing everything... and there is the scent of the know-it-all to your posts. Oh, and I do have the education you speak of, and the most important thing I've learned overall is that you always have more to learn about any given subject.

Back to our exchange, though...

If at this point you can't understand both sides it's not really my job to teach you the basics of non-biased analysis. If your vision is that myopic I can't help you, especially on the internet. I do feel pity for you. You are missing out on a lot. Not even saying that you should be a Democrat (or Republican for that matter), just that it's sad to see someone that presents themselves as being absolutely sure of their position, but shows no true understanding of other positions and in fact seems to hate the other ones for acting so sure in theirs.

So, basicly you've got nothing, but would rather resort to shifting the discussion to personalities, rather than actual issues. Sounds familiar; McCain's campaign would be proud. I'm sure of my position because I've read extensively about both parties (and most of the independents) and understand their positions, both by word and deed. The simple fact is, Republicans, overall, take the position that America is free enough, maybe a little too free, and that the "good old days", however repressive and backward they may be, need to be preserved, as well as the power of the established "leaders" of the US (of which I would be one). Democrats, overall, take the position that, like any system short of factual utopia, America is imperfectly free and fair, and are willing to work to improve it, and that the power in America should be shared among all people, not just the rich and the corporate and those who fit into the proper religious framework.

So, again, I'd like to hear what freedoms Republicans support, so we can actually discuss them, not devolve into personal crap-throwing.

lord_sutekh wrote:

So, again, I'd like to hear what freedoms Republicans support, so we can actually discuss them, not devolve into personal crap-throwing.

My apologies. I was uncontrollably agitated by the hate that was being spewed.

As for the Republican party, I seriously question many of their motives. The last 8 years have been almost unbearable. I am not a supporter of the two party system. But I truly hope that Americans come to the polls and elect a new party into office. The current party has much to answer for.

Honestly, I'd rather see a 3, 4, or 5-party system than the current 2-party. The "with-us-or-against-us", all-or-nothing mentality it spawns (and which I myself have felt from time to time) is damaging and detrimental to our overall good. It's better to require compromise and deal-making to run a government than an all-or-nothing power system.

lord_sutekh wrote:Honestly, I'd rather see a 3, 4, or 5-party system than the current 2-party. The "with-us-or-against-us", all-or-nothing mentality it spawns (and which I myself have felt from time to time) is damaging and detrimental to our overall good. It's better to require compromise and deal-making to run a government than an all-or-nothing power system.

I couldn't agree more. I always ask, where else in life do we only allow such few choices. Could you imagine walking onto a car lot, and you could only buy blue or red cars that were basically the same model? Or go to a restaurant and you could order the hamburger or the cheeseburger and nothing else? It blows my mind that it is basically accepted that we have a two party system. Now, I'm not sure if it is because I am getting older and more cynical, or the change is really happening, but the two parties seem to have less and less different from each other. To me it is starting to look like Republican, and Republican light. Now, I really really really really, (did I mention "really") hope that the democrats can bring the winds of change with a vengeance. But my cynical side says that all of the big promises, and great change speeches sound great now, but once in Washington, very little will change. The juggernaut that is the American political system will trudge forward and we'll all just keep having to hang on. But, one can always hope.

As long as people continue to cling to the "2-Party" mythology, the "juggernaught" that holds sway over the US government will never relinquish its grasp. It is sad to the point of laughable how people continue to vote for the same 2 parties that have held control for decades and expect "change". The public is frightened by the parties into voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

**Psst... you can (and should) vote for someone other than the donkey or the elephant.**

lord_sutekh wrote:Oh, and I do have the education you speak of

Are you sure? I mean, going to post secondary training doesn't equal being educated. Seen a lot of people graduate that weren't all that bright. I mean, you seem to have trouble looking at something as simple as two sides of an argument, let alone what happens when you get into the really complicated ones that may have more.

lord_sutekh wrote:
and the most important thing I've learned overall is that you always have more to learn about any given subject.

The most important thing you learned in college/university is something that is learned in Elementary School?


Back to our exchange, though...

rather than actual issues.

All you've done, in essence is call anyone to your right on the political spectrum a fascist and an idiot or fool. Why should I bring issues into this when you won't and probably aren't that capable of not quoting a bullet point from your favorite blog.

I'm sure of my position because I've read extensively about both parties (and most of the independents) and understand their positions, both by word and deed.

Gosh you sound like a know it all. People aren't going to like you. I'm still thinking you got gipped by your education. You don't even see what the crux of the argument is and why this is funny. You have got your little party blinders on like a horse pulling a cart.

Ahtman wrote:I don't know everything and have never stated such a thing. Someone appearing knowledgeable makes you want to not hear what they have to say? Now, you may enjoy your anti-intellectual stance, but when you get to post-secondary education you may want to rethink telling anyone that knows something that you don't like them because they know something and aren't afraid to act as such.

Ahtman: Pot calling the kettle black much?

This is the internet, the most faceless of forums. Who is to judge who's opinion is "the authoratative" stance on a particular topic. Why would your "knowledgable" insight considered more correct than someone elses? Any credentials you might have are an unknown. For all I know, you could be a basement dwelling high schooling mouth breather and ixlar could be a professional in the work force... (his syntax is pretty decent). Needless to say, outright dismissing a parent poster's opinion as rubbish or lacking any basis in reality and/or fact, while declining to actually rebutt their position hardly seems "intellectual" to me...

But hey, what do I know. I'm just a faceless internet mouthbreather. Heck, I'm probably just a noobish high school goober too, right?

Sutekh: Give it up, you can't make any headway when your opponent's position consists solely of "you're wrong".

Ahtman wrote:

lord_sutekh wrote:Oh, and I do have the education you speak of

Are you sure? I mean, going to post secondary training doesn't equal being educated. Seen a lot of people graduate that weren't all that bright. I mean, you seem to have trouble looking at something as simple as two sides of an argument, let alone what happens when you get into the really complicated ones that may have more.

lord_sutekh wrote:

Thats true. I've three degrees of edumakation and that doesn't make me coherent, or even able to type...

This one's getting personally insulting and has about run its course. Closin' er up.