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hellsguardian316 wrote:erm, no it doesn't Breton, he may begin the game by being deployed. Infiltrate takes place after all deployment.

Pg48 Rulebook

Alternativily an independent charactor may begin the game already with a unit, by being deployed in coherency with them

Pg 92 SM Codex

See, But Remain Unseen Shrike (and models in his squad) benefit from the infiltrate special rule (see the warhammer 40,000 rulebook).

That means to gain infiltrate the unit must be joined before deployment other wise you'd have to deploy the unit then join, then move them so you can do infiltrate after deployment.

So the only ones that can benefit from Shrikes infiltrate are the the Command squad with whatever upgrades you've given them, bikes, etc

If I've missed anything relating to the above that says something then I'll stand corrected

Step 1: hold Shrike + termies in (voluntary) reserve
Step 2: Attach Shrike to termies while in reserve
Step 3: Outflank with assault termies

It's not deploying your Infiltrating assault termies, but it's potenially useful.

I was thinking exactly what Janthkin was thinking...

Too bad they can't be Black Templars though....but they would make good Night Lords!

I gave one of my powerfisted Wolf Guard a smoke launcher from the old rhino kit; they were about half the size. No house rules or anything. It just looked kind of nifty.

hellsguardian316 wrote:Have now been able to read the codex and rulebook and have to say I don't think you can Infiltrate Termies

Pg48 (top right)
Says that you can join a unit during deployment, and as Infiltrate is done after deployment the Termies would be forced to be deployed before hoining Shrike.

However he can be joined by a command squad with bikes as it states in that entry he may take them as an option.

Page 48" Alternatively, an independant character may begin the game already with a unit, by being deployed in coherency with them."

So you can announce that Shrike is being deployed with X unit...and therefore that unit has infiltrate, and can thus be deployed during the Infiltrate phase. Infiltration is a subsection of the deployment phase.

So yes, you can infilitrate terminators or bikers.

hellsguardian316 wrote:erm, no it doesn't Breton, he may begin the game by being deployed. Infiltrate takes place after all deployment.

Pg48 Rulebook

Alternativily an independent charactor may begin the game already with a unit, by being deployed in coherency with them

Pg 92 SM Codex

See, But Remain Unseen Shrike (and models in his squad) benefit from the infiltrate special rule (see the warhammer 40,000 rulebook).

That means to gain infiltrate the unit must be joined before deployment other wise you'd have to deploy the unit then join, then move them so you can do infiltrate after deployment.

So the only ones that can benefit from Shrikes infiltrate are the the Command squad with whatever upgrades you've given them, bikes, etc

If I've missed anything relating to the above that says something then I'll stand corrected

You would be incorrect about the Command Squad, if you were not wrong about being able to infiltrate any unit. Command Squads are not retinues, they are separate from the character.

How is the command squad incorrect? It says clearly in the entry for the Command Squad that they can be taken with Shrike and would therefore gain his infiltrate ability from Shrikes entry.

My understanding from the way that sentence is written is that they are joined when deployed, not prior to deployment by announcing "this person is being deployed with this squad"

But I do see where you are coming from with your point KeithGatchalian. But have not seen anything that disproves my previous statement. So I still think infiltrating Termies is not allowed.

It says in the command squad entry that a command squad may be chosen if you have also taken Shrike. It does not say that the two form a unit.

hellsguardian316 wrote:How is the command squad incorrect? It says clearly in the entry for the Command Squad that they can be taken with Shrike and would therefore gain his infiltrate ability from Shrikes entry.

My understanding from the way that sentence is written is that they are joined when deployed, not prior to deployment by announcing "this person is being deployed with this squad"

But I do see where you are coming from with your point KeithGatchalian. But have not seen anything that disproves my previous statement. So I still think infiltrating Termies is not allowed.

The intent of giving Shrike that ability was for him to join a unit and infiltrate it. Not to let a unit outflank, otherwise they would have just given him the outflank ability. I think the language is clear in this regard. Before you deploy the unit, you announce you are joining the character to it. You then deploy it. By attaching Shrike, you then give the unit infiltrate and thus it can deploy later in the deployment phase.

Just to clarify, when deploying your army you deploy the whole army as a whole then the opponent deploys his entire army then you do infiltrate? (depending on who wins the roll)

The "deploy all Heavy" then "deploy all Troop" has now disappeared in 5th Ed?

But even then I'm still confused how you can declare your joining a squad before you physically deploy them as its not mentioned in the rulebook. I've read the section on select the mission and deployment and I must admit to me it seems a little vague in connection to this topic and doesn't really help with an answer IMHO.

KeithGatchalian wrote: (Part quote)-------you announce you are joining the character to it. You then deploy it. By attaching Shrike, you then give the unit infiltrate and thus it can deploy later in the deployment phase------

Though if deployment is now one lump action and no longer seperate then I can see where you are coming from

tzeentchling wrote:It says in the command squad entry that a command squad may be chosen if you have also taken Shrike. It does not say that the two form a unit.

Hmmm, I agree. Its a little open ended in that respect

Janthkin wrote:
Step 1: hold Shrike + termies in (voluntary) reserve
Step 2: Attach Shrike to termies while in reserve
Step 3: Outflank with assault termies

It's not deploying your Infiltrating assault termies, but it's potenially useful.

I was not aware you could attach IC's and units whilst in reserve

Sorry to bump this topic, I'm just keen to get an answer as I also play Marines and want to give it one last try before the topic disappears from first page.

Basically, the general thought is that you can use Shrike to infiltrate a unit of marines alongside him (including terminators)
From what I've read I do not think you can include infiltrating Termies with him, as other believe you can (reasons and page references included in previous posts by everyone) and was hoping to get some more thoughts from other dakkaties.

Personally I hope I am proven wrong as I would love to be able to infiltrate termies with Shrike, but everything I've read and my understanding leads me to say you can't, only the command squad can infiltrate with him.

Well, if you look at it my way, he can take any squad with him. If you look at it the other way, then he can't take any squad with him, period. Note again that the command squad does not form any sort of retinue with Shrike - it's a completely separate unit, making it susceptible to the same argument used against letting Shrike infiltrate with anyone else.