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Phryxis, great post. Dead on. That regardless of outside opinions your breakdown is indisputable proof of the effectiveness of the various gaunt offers. I'm glad I didn't assemble my hormagaunts yet. I'm going to make them gaunts by giving them spinefists.

No one has mentioned this yet but...

scuttlers gives you the outflank move. Thats a big deal if you ask me.

Phryxis wrote:

Daydream wrote:I'm actually not a fan of WoN and would rather have more gaunts for the points, but others seem to really like it.

Give it a try in 5th, if you haven't.

I was skeptical at first too, but the missions in 5th really love it. Or, at least, half of them do. In KP missions, it's a bit of a liability, but in any objective based mission it's fantastic.

I have given it a try, but I usually run 2 walking tyrants as my only synapse, and the recylced gaunts seem to always be falling back at the end of the game. I can see them working with a little more synapse on the board.

Phryxis wrote:

Daydream wrote:Units of 12 or below will die instantly, while full units of 32 will take a few rounds to wipe out.

I run mine in 12-14 currently. I don't entirely agree that they die instantly. They're certainly extremely fragile, but with Synapse in range, they'll stay in the fight to the last, which makes them more durable than their numbers suggest.

That said, if you're not going to WoN, then the big squads are better. When you do play WoN, smaller squads get back on the table faster. Bad for KP missions, great otherwise.

Staying in the fight to the last isn't the issue, its the 8 wounds done on the charge, plus the 7 due to no retreat that wipes out my small units of gaunts. But I keep them small to make sure they get wiped out so that I can shoot and assault my opponent's squad next turn.

If you have a smaller squad and charge into assault yourself, then they may not die on the 1st round, but I find that my pile in moves usually open my gaunt screen enough that my opponents can go around it. This has led me to accept almost all charges against my gaunts, and then they do "die instantly..." But that is their job, so it seems to work well.

I have given it a try, but I usually run 2 walking tyrants as my only synapse, and the recylced gaunts seem to always be falling back at the end of the game.

Yup, this is certainly an issue, and one of the major strikes against. What I end up doing is setting up a "Zoanthrope Highway" with my 3x Zoanthropes, so that when the Guants come on, they've got Synapse all the way to the other side of the table, or at least where I need them to go. This doesn't always work, even with 3x Zoanthropes, so I can see how 2x Tyrants would be a struggle.

The good news, though, is that even if they come on oot of Synapse, they're either going to do what you want (unlikely), or move quite quickly up the field towards your Synapse.

But I keep them small to make sure they get wiped out so that I can shoot and assault my opponent's squad next turn.

Right, that's exactly what I'm suggesting, and I find that 12-14 does this well. All they need to do is keep one guy in the fight until his turn, and the unit they're on is locked up.

A major rule in 40K is "win combats during his assault phase." But second to that is "lose combats during his assault phase." Because even when the Gaunts lose, they'll be right back, and there's 2 Dakkafexes waiting to smoke the squad that just killed them.

Or, I guess not smoke, so much as "cover in bitey maggots."

Bottom line, you have to pick a brood size, and learn how it will do against different units in different situations. That's where the Mathhammer helps a lot. For example, you know you can't run them into Khorne Raptors, because the Raptors will just laugh, take the extra D6 move, and then assault your Fex. Let the Raptors have them, then use your next turn to deal with the Raptors. 126 points of Gaunts die, then your whole army can move in and finish of 250 points of Raptors with no problem.

Nothing better than a speedbump unit that comes back to do it again.

The big lesson of Gaunts (and this isn't news to some people in this thread) is that you have to almost hate your Gaunts. That's why I say "Gaunts suck." It's the most important rule of Gaunts, you can't get attached to them, you can't start planning for them to accomplish anything, you have to know that they're stupid little clods who exist to hinder and irritate your opponent. Like Grots, but with more menacing fluff.

would it be worth running 1-2 broods of spinefish gaunts with scuttlers and 2 more broods of fleshgaunts to sheild my 25 brood of Hormagaunts and 12 genestealers?

The spinegants will serve to contest and tie up, the flesh gaunts will be the meat shield and try and shoot stuff.

Yes, im taking WoN on all gaunts that i can

does that sound good?

does that sound good?

I don't know, what's "good?"

Best possible list? You're 3X Dakkafexes short of that.

Most fun list for you? I dunno, can we tell you what's good then?

I mean, clearly you have some of the models in question, clearly you like a certain style of play. If you're going to take Hormagaunts, then I'd say you want a screen of cheap WoN Gaunts in front of them, so you're on the right track.

But, you saw the numbers, right? I don't think there's ever a reason to field Hormagaunts. Spinefist Gaunts are simply more points efficient against MEqs. I'd have to run the numbers on some other units, but I doubt much changes.

As far as the Gaunts go, they're all trying to shoot and tie up. Foremost tie up, second shoot. So if they can get close enough to shoot and assault, great. Otherwise just run. Only if you end your move at around 10-12" from a target would you want to shoot (the odds of rolling a 6 Fleet aren't great, might as well shoot).