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I intend on attending the 2009 Ard Boyz tournament and at least one Grand Tournament. Do you think it would be acceptable for me to bring two plastic cups and request my opponent roll out of one cup and I will do the same?

I intend on attending the 2009 Ard Boyz tournament and at least one Grand Tournament. Do you think it would be acceptable for me to bring two plastic cups and request my opponent roll out of one cup and I will do the same?

That might be a little annoying. There are a lot of dice rolls made through out the game, and rolling them in a cup might get tedious after a while. They'd be extra annoyed if the game ran out of time while they were rolling all of the dice in cups.
I think the dice problems are somewhat overblown; it's not like there are tons of people doing this. Watching your opponent carefully will generally be enough to either stop them from trying anything, or catch them if they do drop the dice. Really crazy dice cheats probably have better things to do than play Warhammer.

has anyone had any problems with psychics using telekinesis to control their dice rolls?

Is this like the in the Phantom Menace?
"Hey there psychic guy with telekinesis! Let's let a dice roll decide something important. Oh, looks like I lost! What a surprise!" :S

This is the technical side of the dice arguement. Most dice start as cubes of plastic and have material removed in the form of dots on each side. The amount of material for each dot is the same, but their are a different number of dots on each face of the dice. The side with 1 dot on is the most heavy (least material removed), while the side with 6 dots is the lightest (most material removed). It also happens that 6 and 1 are on opposite sides of the die. This means that the one will want to be down as it's the heaviest side and the 6 will want to be up at it's the lightest. This means that standard dice should favor 6s over 1s due to simple physics. This trend gets more pronounced in bigger dice and the weight difference between sides is bigger because the divits are larger. This is why casino dice cut the dice dots and then fill them in with a different color material, making them perfectly balanced.

On a side note, I have a set of red small dice (36 per cube) that I was banned form using in my local GW store because of how bad they rolled. I played one game where I rolled nothing higher than a 3 for the entire game.

Techboss wrote:This is the technical side of the dice arguement. Most dice start as cubes of plastic and have material removed in the form of dots on each side. The amount of material for each dot is the same, but their are a different number of dots on each face of the dice. The side with 1 dot on is the most heavy (least material removed), while the side with 6 dots is the lightest (most material removed). It also happens that 6 and 1 are on opposite sides of the die. This means that the one will want to be down as it's the heaviest side and the 6 will want to be up at it's the lightest. This means that standard dice should favor 6s over 1s due to simple physics. This trend gets more pronounced in bigger dice and the weight difference between sides is bigger because the divits are larger. This is why casino dice cut the dice dots and then fill them in with a different color material, making them perfectly balanced.

On a side note, I have a set of red small dice (36 per cube) that I was banned form using in my local GW store because of how bad they rolled. I played one game where I rolled nothing higher than a 3 for the entire game.

According to a piece of research by some engineer, dice with cavity dots actually tend to roll low rather than high.

mostly it's done in 'back lot' scam games, iirc, which is why you shouldn't do them.

Talking fro mtrue experience, if a guy calls you over to a table on the street and he has a 40k game all set up and ready to go, be wary. I gotten taken for 52,000 dollars last year in Baltimore.


Things started off good with me playing a Lash of Submission versus Tau, but it got ugly once he started playing Orcs.

All of his dice kept rolling sixes. I dont know what to think but I certainly would keep my eyes out for these street hustlers.

grizgrin wrote:Bunker: Reading is fundamental. Judging by your post, you may need to sharpen up on it. Let me clarify for you: I'm not intersted in learning to cheat. I'm interested in what dice are easy to manipulate. I use casino dice, presicion dice, whatever you want to call them. I SUSPECT that these are the "cheater's dice" I am hearing about. If so, I may very well stop using them.

I DO appreciate the nugget you offered up, in that you suggest casino dice are indeed "it". But try to read a bit more thoroughly before you label people cheaters, or people who want to learn to cheat. That's pretty offensive.

The casino dice you use are the ones that roll each number 1 sixth of the time, as they should. GW or other pip dice roll ones more often. Use GW dice for leadership tests and casino dice for everything else.

Talking fro mtrue experience, if a guy calls you over to a table on the street and he has a 40k game all set up and ready to go, be wary. I gotten taken for 52,000 dollars last year in Baltimore.


Things started off good with me playing a Lash of Submission versus Tau, but it got ugly once he started playing Orcs.

All of his dice kept rolling sixes. I dont know what to think but I certainly would keep my eyes out for these street hustlers.

He was sharkin' you with those Tau.
Nobody plays those things for real.

Vegas is going to start a pro circuit in 2009. Hot.

G

Orlanth wrote:Most cheating I see revolves around misreading of scatter dice. Too many people appear to not be able to compare the scatter arrow with the direction they are moving the template.

I have personally come to the conclusion that I'm dang near the only guy at my FLGS who can look at the arrow and move the blast or whatever in the same direction. I don't think the people are cheating, I just think they're wrong, always. The die will have managed to land square to the table, with the arrow then pointing in a nice 45 degree angle, and they'll be move the thing in a darn near straight line towards a board edge. I have to insist people roll the die as closely to whatever they're scattering as possible.

I think lazy cheating is more common.. losing count or picking up dice that havent been rolled are harder to detect.

I know a guy that always moves the blast in the oppoSite direction but he has no sense of smell... Or fashion really.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I know a guy that always moves the blast in the oppoSite direction but he has no sense of smell... Or fashion really.

G

Sounds like his equilibrium is in the negative universe. If you cut off his ear that should set
things straight. Or end the game.

Note that it's still possible to cheat when using a dice cup, especially for a small number of dice (the trick being the dice whirl around inside without changing facing if you swirl the cup right)

I played a 40k game using a yahtzee cup once, the biggest problem was the dice sometimes getting stuck in the cup (yahtzee cups have a narrow opening so 2 dice can jam). But that's another story.

It is possible to cheat with a dice tower. You can build a dice tower that will produce non-chaotic results, to (say) allways mill out a dice as a six that's dropped in with the 1 facing up.

The key to stopping cheating is social, not mechanical, as any mechanism can be overcome. That said, it's imporant to be aware of the different forms of dice cheating so that you can spot them.

If you want to know that your own rolls are chaotic, just shake your dice up in your hands and roll them from at least 6" off the table.

I try to bounce them off my opponent's belly. The fatter they are, the easier it is for me to cheat.

Oh, this is about dice.

Rawk hard abs & six packs FTW!

G

Aduro wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Most cheating I see revolves around misreading of scatter dice. Too many people appear to not be able to compare the scatter arrow with the direction they are moving the template.

I have personally come to the conclusion that I'm dang near the only guy at my FLGS who can look at the arrow and move the blast or whatever in the same direction. I don't think the people are cheating, I just think they're wrong, always. The die will have managed to land square to the table, with the arrow then pointing in a nice 45 degree angle, and they'll be move the thing in a darn near straight line towards a board edge. I have to insist people roll the die as closely to whatever they're scattering as possible.

Amen. It may be my years of math and physics classes speaking, but to me, I can't even understand the way some people can move those templates and think that they're going the right direction. If it's too egregious I tend to just pull out the tape measure, and run it in a straight line from directly above the scatter dice out to where they're putting their template. It's not at all uncommon for their tape measure to off by 30 degrees or more from being parallel to the one in line with the dice. Generally when I do that they're shocked at how far off they were at reading the arrow, but it's always been something that has seemed very clear and obvious to me, even from where I'm standing (even accounting for the parallax from my point of view, it's obvious).

But the way to tell whether it's a cheat or just being bad is whether or not it's advantageous to them. The last person I played who used blasts in a tournament not only was "bad" at following the scatter dice direction, but every time it was always in the direction that got more of my units/models, not less, and again, it was sometimes off by 30-40 degrees. I'll accept that a lot of people have trouble looking at that little arrow and extrapolating a parallel line, but not that every time someone is off, it just happens to be in an advantageous direction. Very not cool.

Aduro wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Most cheating I see revolves around misreading of scatter dice. Too many people appear to not be able to compare the scatter arrow with the direction they are moving the template.

I have personally come to the conclusion that I'm dang near the only guy at my FLGS who can look at the arrow and move the blast or whatever in the same direction. I don't think the people are cheating, I just think they're wrong, always. The die will have managed to land square to the table, with the arrow then pointing in a nice 45 degree angle, and they'll be move the thing in a darn near straight line towards a board edge. I have to insist people roll the die as closely to whatever they're scattering as possible.

At our FLGS, we have a stick.. a basic dowel, that is held over the scatter die lining up with the arrow. Once that LARGER stick is used (this is about a 12 inch dowel), NO one makes those drifting scatter mistakes.

-P

Nuke Mek: While that may be legal under the rules, I tink one set of dice should suffice for the game.

Jesus, thi sthread blew up. Too bad there's so much nonsense in it, but hey... thanks to those who are looking at things seriously.

grizgrin wrote:Nuke Mek: While that may be legal under the rules, I tink one set of dice should suffice for the game.

I run an Ork horde army... I need lots of dice!!