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bryantsbears wrote:He's failing to factor in the odds that 1/3 the time you're not going to have to worry about scattering.

No I factored it in, but I'm saying that the 1/3rd of the time you do hit is meaningless anyway, as they hit worse than a Bolter.

To put it another way:

Mortars are bad because there are better things you can buy for 10 points, they miss most of the time, and when they do hit they do virtually nothing anyway.

BYE

Welcome to Dakka

Grenade Lancuhers not worth it at all. Motars same. IMO Close Order is a must have IMO.

Listen to H.B.M.C. My IG sucked and now there pretty dam good at 20-4-5

When I first "met" HBMC, i disagreed with him on a lot of things.

Now that I'm back on Dakka, and reading more things by him, I'm realizing that I actually agree with a lot of what he says. Especially pessimism about the upcoming Codex.

There are a few things I disagree with; I generally take a (1!) Missile Launcher AT squad and a full Sentinel squad, but that's me.

Concerning special weapons, I agree pretty much entierly. I especially like the description of the Grenade Launcher's role as, "to not be taken". I mean, I can't understand why they'd offer us the option to probably not kill anything for 8 points, or kill *everything* for 10 points and a chance at frying a Guardsman.

Oh wait, I forgot, we're dealing with the Games Workshop 40k team, and the poor slobs specifically who worked on the Guard codex. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but the bulk of the Guard 'dex was done by Jervis, who, to my knowledge, has the single distinction of never winning a battle in a White Dwarf. That tells you something.

That said, HBMC, I'm surprised that you seem accepting of the flamer. It's something that I would never take in my infantry...well, actually something I would never take, for the simple reason that, if you're *very lucky*, you get to shoot it once before that squad is dead, and if you're not (which you probably are, as you're playing Guard), you'll never get to shoot it.

The Meltagun, for me, is a similar thing in infantry squads (specialist squads are different). Too short a range and all.

Grenade launcher, we've discussed.

So, of the 4 special weapons we have, 1 sucks, 1 debatably sucks, 1 is useful only in specialist squads, and one *kills everything*.

And then people complain when we load up on Plasma. And people wonder why I'm so enthused about Fantasy.....

Flamers are just-in-case weapons to me, something I fire before the squad swams in to their inevitable doom.

BYE

Flamers are ok in rement squads (I know there a kill point) but if you can table your enemy it's fine.

36pts for a flame squad I'm happy with that