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Slipstream wrote:
E)How many of you started out with WD/GW and learned
of other games?Don't give me all that guff about the
resources on the internet,if there was no magazine
available on a regular basis the Scifi/fantasy world
would implode.

I think this number is a LOT lower than you imagine. Everyone I've EVER met who plays WHFB/WH40K was introduced through a different game, usually D&D. (I've worked at two different gamestores AND have been 'gaming' for over 20 years now). Seeing as how GW doesn't advertise at all outside of WD, most people find out about it through word of mouth, usually from people whom they play a different game with already, OR because they see it at their FLGS while shopping for stuff for said other games. The last store I worked at got most of it's escalation league players from the clix pool.

At $8, it doesn't have enough value-add for me, I don't play WFB or LOTR so that's wasted space. As for 40K, I can find better advice, painted models and sweet modelling stuff here on dakka, or on other websites. If I'm gonna drop $8 on anything GW related, it's either going to be put towards new models.terrain or a Horus Heresy novel.

It's best worth is for That F!@# Guy shelling out for, figuring out that it hasn't changed, he leaves it laying around, and then it eventually gets read by everyone else...
on the crapper.

Better then watching at the wall in there.

You poo wear you play? That's a little extreme isn't it?

avantgarde wrote:You poo wear you play? That's a little extreme isn't it?

WHO WEARS poo while playing? I think you mean where.

With the B.O. some of the kids at GW stores have....I wouldn't be so sure.

Wait...?!?

You want me to pay....?!?! For your product catalogue?!?! Every month?!?!?!

How much!?!?!?!

Daylight robbery, I used to collect WD when it was a magazine, it was expensive then. It is a product promotion now and they are charging for it, they are charging ALOT for it.

Total con-job. I have come to appreciate the wonders of site like this for my gaming needs now.

Although I enjoy reading it most of the time, I do object heavily to paying so much money for what is essentially one big advert for whatever GW is pimping that month.

two_heads_talking wrote:

avantgarde wrote:You poo wear you play? That's a little extreme isn't it?

WHO WEARS poo while playing? I think you mean where.

Just like GW's faqs:
1. I mean exactly what I say
2. It is a cheesy as you think it is
3. This is the level of humor you can expect

Jed?...Jed?..Is it you?
Seriously over priced.

What do I think would make it worth while?

How about 6 dollars and GW uses some common sense and use WD as its hardcopy release of FAQs and special release updates.
If GW was smart and did this right I'd get a Subscrption. When I say do it right, I mean common sense business. The issue deals with fantasy, release the 40k FAQs. Deals with LotR, Special release character rules. And then ect, ect, ...everymonth something for everyone.

I bought one for the first time the other day. I wish I had spent $7 more and got the 2009 Product catalogue.

What happened to Black Gobbo? I enjoy reading something with substance, not the stylized mag that I bought. I guess that's why I'm a loyal member here, more well written article than in the last 6 WD.

Yeah, I miss Black Gobbo. If they had made WD more of a print version of that, as well as a catalog, I'd probably subscribe.

I agree that I'm really not thrilled at the price and how it increases year after year.

That said, to the extent that GW has decided to make it a marketing tool, aimed at the new player, then I believe it succeeds in a big way. Imagine the default scenario where kiddie and his mom come into the store and buy him a troop box of whatever game/army he wants to start along with a starter paint set and a White Dwarf magazine.

In this very magazine it is likely that he can find pictures and references to not only his army but he can see how others are collecting armies, painting armies and other games (the two he's not starting).

In this very magazine he can learn a sense of community and an introduction to the hobby above and beyond the box of plastic soldiers he has to build.

As long as GW feels that enough magazines are selling, there will be little to no pressure to change the focus of the magazine to something different or back to the "good old days" we remember.

I believe that GW knows that veteran hobbyists will feed their appetite with other veteran hobbyists in online forums such as this.

Remember that under that shiny "publicly traded company" veneer is a bunch of guys who want to make fun rules for fun games with their mates and their design philosophy doesn't take into account tournament play. It is their company and their choice. As long as we continue to buy in and participate, then that makes it our problem.

It *is* too bad that Black Gobbo is no more, but it just means that we the hobbyists need to (get to) publish our own content. The barrier to entry is so low that any of us can choose to have our own blog or to submit things to gaming forums or to volunteer-supported fanzines like Firebase magazine.

I have always wondered why we "veterans" feel we need so much support from GW. I think that as veteran gamers we are quite capable of taking care of ourselves.

Enjoy,
Jon

I've seen WD evolve over the years and I think it's been worse than it is at the moment.

Hobby articles have started to come back (good 'Eavy Metal on painting faces this month) and there is slightly less of an "army of the month" feel than in recent years.

That said, battle reports remain tedious to read, difficult to follow and generally serve only to highlight new releases, which also dominate a large portion of the rest of the magazine.

I voted, It's ok.

I told myself I couldn't justify the $8 price so I wouldn't be buying any longer. Yet, I have bought the last 3 issues because something caught my eye.

White Dwarf isn't as good as it used to be when Andy Chambers had the Chapter Approved, but I resigned myself to the fact it's a catalog and has just enough to catch me wanting. Mostly for painting and modeling tips.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:At $8, it doesn't have enough value-add for me, I don't play WFB or LOTR so that's wasted space. As for 40K, I can find better advice, painted models and sweet modelling stuff here on dakka, or on other websites. If I'm gonna drop $8 on anything GW related, it's either going to be put towards new models.terrain or a Horus Heresy novel.

Strangely I was saying these same words last week as I picked up my copy of White Dwarf to buy.

God I rmeember when they were still releasing warhammer quest and had scenarios in the White Dwarf.


Also who can forget the issues that introduced the vindicare and other assassins to the 2nd edition game.


The modeling articles , the battle reports !!, everything it was a actual hobby magazine.

Sure they displayed new models, but not to the incredilby annoying overload you get from every issue.


It's a piece of gak, the writing is terrible, battle reports are just horrible sometimes.


A sad sad shadow of what it was.


Issue 234 for Life YO

It's an $8 ad. Everything that's come out in WD's can usually be found online soon after or even earlier for free.

Unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it, it's currently garbage. The writing sucks, there's rarely anything of interest, certainly almost nill related to actual gaming such as FAQ's, new rules, etc (with a couple exceptions, but those also sucked except the BA list) and the articles are either canned or simply testimonials.

WD used to be really very cool, an almost vital monthly purchase for GW players. Now? It's an add for the latest releases and re-hashed painting articles for people who have never seen a brush before.

I used to enjoy the White Dwarf, but the last two years it has gone to crap. When my subscription expires this time I will not renew. Besides the price has gotten out of sight at $75 dollars a year.

Warrior 50

jon23516 wrote:I agree that I'm really not thrilled at the price and how it increases year after year.

That said, to the extent that GW has decided to make it a marketing tool, aimed at the new player, then I believe it succeeds in a big way. Imagine the default scenario where kiddie and his mom come into the store and buy him a troop box of whatever game/army he wants to start along with a starter paint set and a White Dwarf magazine.

In this very magazine it is likely that he can find pictures and references to not only his army but he can see how others are collecting armies, painting armies and other games (the two he's not starting).

In this very magazine he can learn a sense of community and an introduction to the hobby above and beyond the box of plastic soldiers he has to build.

As long as GW feels that enough magazines are selling, there will be little to no pressure to change the focus of the magazine to something different or back to the "good old days" we remember.

I believe that GW knows that veteran hobbyists will feed their appetite with other veteran hobbyists in online forums such as this.

Remember that under that shiny "publicly traded company" veneer is a bunch of guys who want to make fun rules for fun games with their mates and their design philosophy doesn't take into account tournament play. It is their company and their choice. As long as we continue to buy in and participate, then that makes it our problem.

It *is* too bad that Black Gobbo is no more, but it just means that we the hobbyists need to (get to) publish our own content. The barrier to entry is so low that any of us can choose to have our own blog or to submit things to gaming forums or to volunteer-supported fanzines like Firebase magazine.

I have always wondered why we "veterans" feel we need so much support from GW. I think that as veteran gamers we are quite capable of taking care of ourselves.

Enjoy,
Jon

I see your point. I really do.

But I think back to the days when I was a new player, and while WD has always been an advertisement for their products (atleast after they dropped everything non GW from the mag) I feel I got more bang for my couple dollars back then.

Along side the compulsory advertisements, there were actual articles. From hobby to rules. To even special occasional inserts of neat addons like assassin codex, space hulk tiles, etc.

I not only subscribed to the mag (and got a free gorkamorka game for subscribing) I actively sought out other issues for more content. because there was some modicum of content during that time.

Nowadays...a fool and their money are soon parted, as the saying goes.

I can still see new players buying it to get some idea about the hobby, in a much crippled form.
But I seriously feel sad for the new players who feel the need to buy the magazine when it is now a mere shadow of what it once was.

Because of that, shame on GW for not only deleting whole swathes of content from the periodical, but shame on them for increasing the price while decreasing the content.

Its purely inexcusable.

jon23516 wrote:I agree that I'm really not thrilled at the price and how it increases year after year.

That said, to the extent that GW has decided to make it a marketing tool, aimed at the new player, then I believe it succeeds in a big way. Imagine the default scenario where kiddie and his mom come into the store and buy him a troop box of whatever game/army he wants to start along with a starter paint set and a White Dwarf magazine.

In this very magazine it is likely that he can find pictures and references to not only his army but he can see how others are collecting armies, painting armies and other games (the two he's not starting).

In this very magazine he can learn a sense of community and an introduction to the hobby above and beyond the box of plastic soldiers he has to build.

As long as GW feels that enough magazines are selling, there will be little to no pressure to change the focus of the magazine to something different or back to the "good old days" we remember.

I believe that GW knows that veteran hobbyists will feed their appetite with other veteran hobbyists in online forums such as this.

Remember that under that shiny "publicly traded company" veneer is a bunch of guys who want to make fun rules for fun games with their mates and their design philosophy doesn't take into account tournament play. It is their company and their choice. As long as we continue to buy in and participate, then that makes it our problem.

It *is* too bad that Black Gobbo is no more, but it just means that we the hobbyists need to (get to) publish our own content. The barrier to entry is so low that any of us can choose to have our own blog or to submit things to gaming forums or to volunteer-supported fanzines like Firebase magazine.

I have always wondered why we "veterans" feel we need so much support from GW. I think that as veteran gamers we are quite capable of taking care of ourselves.

Enjoy,
Jon

You do have some good points here Jon, I really can't disagree with you. Granted this thread really is a bitch session about something that was immensely loved. I don't think that disqualifies it from necessity as we share our grief over this loss or the loss of the GW website(when it was more resource oriented). While it'd be great to be able to see a great Sci Fi wargamming magazine come around devoted to us I doubt we'll see it anytime in the near future. Something that's far more plausible is the great resource and information we have here at Dakka and ofc other sites like it. I remember perusing the Dakka site even way back before it was Forum-centric and only just came back with the release of 5th ed. I'm astounded at the amount of information in things this site provides while also providing a place to gather as a community. This by far is way more valuable to me as a gamer.

I'd say I've bought 5 out of the last 9 or so issues. I don't buy them all, but I probably buy more than half. One of the main reasons I buy them is for painting/modeling inspiration. I'm a sucker for big, colorful, glossy spreads. Oh well, we all have our faults.

I also like reading stuff about the games I play - though selfishly (like many others in this thread), I wish they'd cut down on LOTR and have more WHFB stuff and keep about the same amount of 40K stuff, but then again, I am sure LotR players would love to see less 40k/WFB and more LotR.

Most definitely, though, it's not as good a magazine as it used to be, when me and my friends would buy EVERY issue, like clockwork. Many would argue that WD has ALWAYS been a big "ad" for GW, but it seems that as time has went on, it's went from a fairly moderate one to a blatant, bloated, and overwhelming one. I'm waiting for the day when GW will cut the magazine another 20 or so pages, raise the price $2 more, so that they can attach one of those miniature light/sound displays like on some greeting cards, so that the laz-cannon on the front cover will light up and make a 'pew pew!' sound when you press the Space Marine's chest.

I agree that WD has always been a marketing tool. I don't mind that it amounts, essentially, to an "ad" for GW, since I like the product and I'm interested in learning more about it.

But I do have two serious problems with the magazine. First, it's too expensive.

Second, it's now geared to beginning hobbyists, and thus not to me.

I really miss the WD of 4-5 years ago, when they featured players' armies, and had more substantive battle reports, and weirder conversions, and narrative elements (Index Astartes and so on).

The funny thing is, 4-5 years ago, many were complaining that the magazine amounted to a giant catalog, had deteriorated in quality, etc. Yet I still bought it eagerly.

So, *sigh, I probably sound like a curmudgeonly old fart. But WD really, really has grown worse.

While, simultaneously, increasing in cost well beyond typical magazine price.

I haven't bought it in the last year or so.

And believe me (if you're listening, GW), I really would, if it were better. I'm still a fanboy at heart.

You don't sound like an old fart,and I two miss the days of the old dwarfer and wish articles like Blachistu9I think it was that)would return,and even though by all means im not an experienced wargammer(I have only had 2 games)the battle reports bore me to death,and I do also again agree I have no intrest in the new LOTR,minis and don't care for the shire,just let the furry footed people go!!!

Yep.. picked up a copy last week on reflex, and after reading the mag, not enough 40k content for me. I regret getting it.

Anyone want a slightly used WD? Send me a PM (US only).. maybe I can send it to you..

Flashman wrote:

Hobby articles have started to come back (good 'Eavy Metal on painting faces this month)

Agreed - that was darned handy. Now, if I could just manage to force myself to sit down and paint...