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Ahtman wrote:Wouldn't the reverse of racism be the lack of racism?

exactly...

unfortunately, so many of America's government programs are designed to perpetuate this. "equal rights" nowadays means "minority rights" by that i mean, that if you are of a minority status in life (through race, religion, sexual preference, or gender) you will get a running head start at the vast majority of things in life over the "majority"

and while i know not everyone is poor by choice, who is really? i do have to look at the "welfare" moms who are 400 pounds, have 7 kids, and wonder why they're poor. I'm sorry, but i have no sympathy for you if you fall into this category, because you cannot get a job because, yes, you ARE lazy... it doesnt take much at all to avoid weighing a ton, and it also takes saying a 2 letter word, or a very easy physical action to NOT have that many kids.. "no" and closing your legs. there are all many of people who fit into this type of "lazy" category, and generally i think that no one should help them... we should cut off their welfare, and all their "government cheese" programs, force them to become working type people, and actually contribute to society.

i also don't have much sympathy for current addicts, as they got themselves into that situation themselves, and my tax dollars shouldnt go to curing them.

if you're poor because you are genuinely a hard worker, and just lost your job because of downsizing or whatnot, dems da breaks... i feel bad for ya, and its these people who should get some help getting back into the working classes of america.

If you fit into any of the first categories, just know that i have no sympathy for ya.. if you're in the 3d category i put down, and you have yet to find a job, you may want to consider military service, as its a steady job, with decent pay and tons of medical/dental benefits.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Wouldn't the reverse of racism be the lack of racism?

exactly...

unfortunately, so many of America's government programs are designed to perpetuate this. "equal rights" nowadays means "minority rights" by that i mean, that if you are of a minority status in life (through race, religion, sexual preference, or gender) you will get a running head start at the vast majority of things in life over the "majority"

Yes, because we all know how good Blacks, women, homosexuals and muslims have compared to the struggling white protestant straight man. I'm honestly pretty suprised anybody would post that, given how completely wrong pretty much everybody knows it to be. What programs exactly give minorities such a huge running start? Have I missed all of them? And what about all the stats in which blacks and women make less than white men, and blacks and hispanics dont' live as long, have as much education or are more likely to die due to homicide?

Chrysaor686 wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Do they bother figuring out why the ones needing money are poor to start with?

Many of them are too lazy to work and rather spend their time doing drugs, and leeching off the government.

I feel sorry for the actual workers that have a job, but is still poor.

That's a really shallow way to look at things.

Obviously you've never come close to homelessness, or even bothered spending time with anyone that actually is homeless. Though there are a fair share of people that are homeless because of a drug addiction, generally it works the other way around. As in, someone loses their job, cannot afford basic needs, loses their house/lease because they cannot pay it on time, and then degenerates into alcohol or drug abuse, if only to keep them from killing themselves because they live on the street, can't find a job, and have to beg for help.

It's actually pretty obvious that YOU have never actually BEEN homeless yourself. I was. It was MY fault. I was addicted to drugs, and didn't want to be a responsible adult when it came time. I lived on the streets, trying to avoid becoming a hardened criminal for 5 years. Not ONCE did I meet someone who was homeless simply becuase they 'lost their job'.

The simple fact of the matter is this, if you are a RESPONSIBLE adult, who has gotten laid off or downsized, you have what is called a support network: family or friends who will help you continue to be a responsible adult until you can manage on your own. Street bums simply want to beg and steal, usually to get drugs and booze. Now, with this recession though, I don't forsee a lot of those support groups being ABLE to help; everybody HAS to put their children first, and nobody's wrong for this.

THIS is why reich is being Racist, who gets the money should NEVER be decided by race, creed, color, or religion. There are PLENTY of white construction workers out there who have already lost their jobs and are in danger of being evicted/losing heat and water/can't afford to feed their children. Since they were WORKING to support their family, they are now LESS desrving of help from the very people they paid their taxes to? Since they are white or decided to educate themselves with a skillset they don't need help?

It's a sad fact that all these job losses we've had recently aren't impacting the people who were unemployed in the first place.

I think my point was missed so I'll put it differently. There is racism or there is lack of racism, there is no "reverse" racism. Racism doesn't just go one way (White -> Black), it goes all ways from all sorts of backgrounds towards all sorts of "others".

Affirmitative action is what he is thinking about . If a company is slacking on hiring minorities and for some reason has a test t see who gets hired and out of all the people that take the test one person = the minorties's score, the minority may get the last position. This of course almost never really happens. All you have to do is ook at the plight of most native american reserves to see who need help. They need help going to college and they need help getting jobs. Thats all it is, help.

Why do people focus on "fault" and "blame"? So what if someone made bad decisions and got fired. Should they starve in the street with no hope? So someone used drugs irresponsibly- should their kids now live in a shelter? What's so bad about offering the opportunity to try again? Are we so self righteous that we won't give people more chances? Is it because I should be able to buy a new flatscreen monitor instead of spending a few bucks to help feed my fellow citizens? Or their children?

On a broader level, why is okay that some people are born poor and most rich people are born rich and even if the poorer person works hard and the rich person doesn't, they will probably stay in the same economic band? That is something that baffles me about any civilization that calls itself just. Why does it reward you for having rich parents by letting you keep it? You didn't earn a dime. Why does it punish poor children with a life of poverty? He did nothing wrong. How can we have a meritocracy when life achievement is largely a product of circumstances and yet most wealth is inherited? Is it okay that we let 10% of the population hoard 90% of the wealth? Is it efficient for societal growth? Did they earn it? Could they have without the other 90%?

These questions are, of course rhetorical. I wish people would spend more time thinking about their views (and others) before spouting wildly dogmatic or partisan positions. We all have to live together, after all. Shouldn't society strive to help everyone not just be an institutionalized version of anarchy or protectionism for the wealthy?

I'll put this into terms that i am familiar with. Being in the military currently, we have some "programs" that generally make it clear that the "protestant, straight white man" is inferior to everything else, in their view..

each of the 12 months have different "recognitions".. feb. being black history month. Theres also a month for "women's history" "asian american history" "mexican american history" and basically every other conceivable race, color, or creed.. Except for the "white male".. there is no month honoring the explorations of the vikings, or the technological advances of the romans, or even the folks who brought about the nuclear age. And the great irony in all of this, is the military's EO (equal opportunity) policy, that claims that all are equal, so long as they wear the same uniform. This, sadly is not the case at all.

Lordhat wrote:It's actually pretty obvious that YOU have never actually BEEN homeless yourself. I was. It was MY fault. I was addicted to drugs, and didn't want to be a responsible adult when it came time. I lived on the streets, trying to avoid becoming a hardened criminal for 5 years. Not ONCE did I meet someone who was homeless simply becuase they 'lost their job'.

The simple fact of the matter is this, if you are a RESPONSIBLE adult, who has gotten laid off or downsized, you have what is called a support network: family or friends who will help you continue to be a responsible adult until you can manage on your own. Street bums simply want to beg and steal, usually to get drugs and booze. Now, with this recession though, I don't forsee a lot of those support groups being ABLE to help; everybody HAS to put their children first, and nobody's wrong for this.

Careful where you place your words.

Now, I have never been homeless in the sense that I have always had a roof over my head. I had lived for quite a long time in Section 8 housing, because my father had 'lost his job'. He had what is called 'a support network', but still couldn't manage to find a job for quite some time. From there, he became an alcoholic. Not the other way around. Even if that didn't help matters whatsoever, the situation didn't stem from his alcoholism. Quite the opposite.

I also lived for a period in a shelter after I had gotten out of prison (For Self Defense with Excessive Force, so please don't try to feed me the old 'My own decision' mantra). Since it was a direct release, it was not at all a government regulated shelter. I had no support network to get me back on my feet, though it had nothing to do with whether or not I was a responsible adult. Now, to your credit, a lot of the people who live in homeless shelters are of the sort that are trying very hard to get back on their feet (probably where my conception comes from). I'd say a good 90% of the people in that shelter were good people who had gotten f*cked in one way or another. A lot of them were people who had simply 'lost their job', as you put it.

Throwing accusations around like that really doesn't help anything.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:and while i know not everyone is poor by choice, who is really? i do have to look at the "welfare" moms who are 400 pounds, have 7 kids, and wonder why they're poor. I'm sorry, but i have no sympathy for you if you fall into this category, because you cannot get a job because, yes, you ARE lazy... it doesnt take much at all to avoid weighing a ton, and it also takes saying a 2 letter word, or a very easy physical action to NOT have that many kids.. "no" and closing your legs. there are all many of people who fit into this type of "lazy" category, and generally i think that no one should help them... we should cut off their welfare, and all their "government cheese" programs, force them to become working type people, and actually contribute to society.

When is the last time you've actually met someone who's 400 pounds, has seven kids, and is on welfare?

This thread needs a good trimming.

Street bums simply want to beg and steal, usually to get drugs and booze.

You're a classy guy! I'm glad people like you get to use freedom of speech.

Chrysaor686 wrote:
When is the last time you've actually met someone who's 400 pounds, has seven kids, and is on welfare?

the last story i saw on the local news, when i was at home, they had a story on the state of the state's welfare program, and the large majority of the people they interviewed ate their way into poverty.

now, i will not make a broad statement that says ALL people on welfare are this way, however i WILL say that no state should have a permanent welfare program. At the most, they should help with putting food on the table during a set period of time, where the individual on said program would need to show, with written proof, that they are actively seeking employment... if nothing else, the state should just hire them to work some menial job, you shouldnt eat for free.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:I'll put this into terms that i am familiar with. Being in the military currently, we have some "programs" that generally make it clear that the "protestant, straight white man" is inferior to everything else, in their view..

each of the 12 months have different "recognitions".. feb. being black history month. Theres also a month for "women's history" "asian american history" "mexican american history" and basically every other conceivable race, color, or creed.. Except for the "white male".. there is no month honoring the explorations of the vikings, or the technological advances of the romans, or even the folks who brought about the nuclear age. And the great irony in all of this, is the military's EO (equal opportunity) policy, that claims that all are equal, so long as they wear the same uniform. This, sadly is not the case at all.

That's you're big evidence? Black history month? Are you serious? Learning the who Cesear Chavez, Susan B. Anthony and George Washington Carver is an awful case of white man's burden. History in this country is primarily taught by focusing on the accomplishments of white people! Do people really not know who our presidents were, who Thomas Edison and Henry Ford were, or who landed on the moon? I really don't think people are learning minority history at the expense of "white" history.

I'm sorry, but you're coming off as simply a guy that resents anything being offered to minorities, and seems to think that the policy of some vast conspiracy is to demean white males.

Moderation on.

Ok, closing this thread before it reaches new depths.