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Interesting concept, I like it better that the shaman idea that GW puts out.

I just read the bit in xenology you were talking about.

I think its pretty cool, nice catch..

Laughing god, avatar, Im guessing all the eldar gods are old ones.. like the one Nurgle captured..

Then it has the emperor, but that part is missing and its just conjecture which is cool, good fluff always has holes in it.

Also I disagree with the Ork gods being old ones, to me Gork and Mork are just like chaos gods but Orky..

First the Old ones didnt make humans, we are raw evolution, ence why eldar hate us so much we took over with out help from any old ones, secondly the orks I dont think had a culture at first cause they worked like a defence program on a computer and with out a controler whent out of control (thats my opinion), and anyone could build a webway once you get smart enough, and if he was one the C'tan would have finished it a long time ago, and Gork and Mork can't be old ones cause the Orks know that they where whiped out to the last.

Orkfantic wrote:First the Old ones didnt make humans, we are raw evolution, ence why eldar hate us so much we took over with out help from any old ones, secondly the orks I dont think had a culture at first cause they worked like a defence program on a computer and with out a controler whent out of control (thats my opinion), and anyone could build a webway once you get smart enough, and if he was one the C'tan would have finished it a long time ago, and Gork and Mork can't be old ones cause the Orks know that they where whiped out to the last.

Actually, in the Necron 4th ed, at one point an Eldar Farseer says "...the Old Ones' lesser creation like the Mon-Keigh". Also in the Necron 4th ed, the Deceiver says that "..can't imagine my surprise at seeing your kind and the Krork all over the place". And finally, Xenology hints strongly at a common source for all the humanoid races with their symmetry-Tau, Humans, Eldar, etc

Not to mention the Pariah gene that has been engineered by the C'tan.

Shaman wrote:I just read the bit in xenology you were talking about.

I think its pretty cool, nice catch..

Laughing god, avatar, Im guessing all the eldar gods are old ones.. like the one Nurgle captured..

Then it has the emperor, but that part is missing and its just conjecture which is cool, good fluff always has holes in it.

Thanks man, yeah, that's pretty much spot on what seemed to me.

I have always assumed the emperor was a C'tan. Using humanity for his own purposes. And that the real emperor was killed when they attacked sixty-three-nineteen. When Horus found out they killed the real emperor, and that the fake one was he C'tan. He turned to chaos. He then mortally wounded the C'tan and died himself in the process. Afterwards the put the C'tan emperor on his golden throne and feed him his steady diet of 1000 psykers a day. presumable to power the golden throne but in reality he gets his free dinner to get back to his full power

Since the people who know the emperor is fake turned to chaos and were branded heretics. Who listens to them? Even when they keep shouting "Death to the fake emperor!" Nobody cares since they are heretics and heretics are supposed to say such things. But nobody thinks they might be right.

Grtz
L.D.

You just blew my mind.

Would the Hive Mind be an old one? Quite new to the game and fluff just an idea i had correct me if i'm wrong.

I think Orkeosaurus pretty much put this to bed on page one. (But that Star Child crap is . . . just crap.)

Manchu wrote:I think Orkeosaurus pretty much put this to bed on page one. (But that Star Child crap is . . . just crap.)

Qft. The should seriously make some more Emprah fluff. They tried to close the Star Child stuff though, by saying it was a Tzeentch plot. Inquisitor Draco leaves a big ? over this though.

Speaking of which, those books are being reprinted as omnibus next year.

LONG LIVE THE EMPEROR THE IMPERIUM!!!
But still the chances of the emperor being a Xenos is very unlikely. Your theory is good i'm not trying to be racial towards 30 year olds but the lore is bad in many ways. GW wants you as the players to figure it out not for you to make a killer awesome force of bad ass warriors who know everything that needs to be know I've been at this hobby for a long time and I always see the problems with the horus hersey (my favorite lore) and the dark age of technology. Also the emperor was first created during the years 10,000 and was reborn many many times. not the year 30,000. it is stated by many people that he is the equvilantent of the chirstian God. so could that be the answer to this thread?

bryantsbears wrote:I thought the old fluff was that the Emperor was the summation of reincarnated souls of a number of shamans in Anatolia.

I do like the Old One theory though.

Yes indeed. Some people in this thread need to go read their early-90s Realm of Chaos fluff!!

As for the very first sentence of the whole thread...

Mechanicum? A good book? It was not even decent. I only read it for a sense of completeness. It is one of the worst two or three books I have ever actually managed to finish!

After a statement like that, nothing you say can be trusted.

Fifty wrote:Mechanicum? A good book? It was not even decent. I only read it for a sense of completeness. It is one of the worst two or three books I have ever actually managed to finish!

So utterly correct!

Seeing that you can recognize poor fluff, I'm surprised you would recommend that Shaman-Sensei-Star Child nonsense to anyone.

First time I read that! But I think it's possible...

I must admit, I can't see the whole Horus is an Old One being true. The simple fact is that Horus was created from the Emperor's body, so how could he be one of the Old Ones, as he wasn' even wround when the Emperor was gallivanting around unifying areas.

The whole point of religion is that it is something for people to go to to have something explained to them which they otherwise wouldn't be able to understand. That's why the Emperor was ridding the Galaxy of it, He believed that everything could be explained by science.

The point above also explains why the Emperor left Horus in charge after Ullanor, as he wanted to get back and further study the Warp, and how it affects humanity itself.

MC

Manchu wrote:Speaking of which, those books are being reprinted as omnibus next year.

It already has been. It wasn't that great :(

Fifty wrote:.

Mechanicum? A good book? It was not even decent. I only read it for a sense of completeness. It is one of the worst two or three books I have ever actually managed to finish!

Qft.

Manchu wrote:

Fifty wrote:Mechanicum? A good book? It was not even decent. I only read it for a sense of completeness. It is one of the worst two or three books I have ever actually managed to finish!

So utterly correct!

Seeing that you can recognize poor fluff, I'm surprised you would recommend that Shaman-Sensei-Star Child nonsense to anyone.

Word

I got 3/4 of the way though the first page. Have to say its interesting. going to read the rest later.

I wouldn't like it to be said that I recommend the Star Child fluff... as such... More that I kinda... accept it. And better that than Dalia "Annoying" whatever-her-surname-is and Zeth with her "AKashic reader".

I mean, McNeill's writing is generally pretty bad, but when it was at least decent stories and concepts earlier in the series, I could cope. Mechanicum was just toss on so many levels it made wax dribble from my nose, tears come from my ears and snot run out of my eyes...

Not likely he was an old one but there is enough evidence.

Emprah is the gestalt of all old Earth's remaining shamans' psychic awareness reborn into one concentrated human form.

Thus he was, is, and shall always be.

Personally I like the Star Child Theory, and the Shaman Birth. I dont know you do have alot of evidence but to each his own theories

Lint wrote:Isn't it mentioned somewhere that Humans were not, in fact created by the old ones?

I dislike the shaman story, but I'm not sure I can go along with the old one theory either. IIRC the warp is the antithesis of the c'tan, thus the old ones created species more attuned to the warp in order to fight them. Now, if the old ones were already super-psychics like the emp. why would they need to create these new species?

Humans were not created by the Old Ones. The last ditch effort of the old ones was the krork, a race of green skinned barbarians. It was too little too late for the Old ones though and we all know what happened after that.

Humans were in fact created by the Void Dragon, if you read Mechanicum. That is how the pariah gene shows up in human DNA and not in other races DNA.

Mechanicum was an excellent book, the characters were all really interesting and it explained a lot of secrets. Up there with Legion for my favorite horus heresy book. Maybe it didn't have enough f#$ing space marines for some of you though.

Did you realize this thread was 2 months old -before- or -after- you posted on a thread that was quite obviously inactive?

That was a fail on his part. YEAH FOR NOT READING! : D

you say that but i hadn't read it and it was quite an interesting conversation, i enjoyed it and feth the lot of ya :p
oh and i'd have to agree with the OP especially with all the rumours of the plot twist (and the given one dosn't ring true, the emp being a shrivelled old man, him being an old one seems a lot more well dramatic)

The Emperor is -not- an Old One. He was born in 8000 BC, LONG after the Old Ones went extinct, to mortal human parents. What made him immortal? The fact that he's not actually human, but made up of the combined conciousness of every Shaman on Earth, thanks to their mass-suicide ritual that concieved him.

Pretty sure there's nothing of value left that can be added to this thread at this point, what with the OP probably having forgotten it's existance and all.

I feel that the Old One theory has some merit. For one, if the void dragon had made humans, why not have them all be pariahs, rather than a smaller percentage of the population than even high level psykers? If I were the Void Dragon, I would consider it a failure and kill the little buggers before they had a significant number of psykers, and thus be a danger (albeit a relatively small one), to myself. It is much more likely that it just inserted the gene into a smaller segment of the population. That theory is dead as a chicken with its head cut off. It may run around for a while, but it is dead all the same in the end.

The Old Ones theory is more likely for humans, as it explains the prevalence of psykers in the human population.

Unless the Old Ones purposely did this, I would cite the tau as being the one naturally evolved race (from this galaxy) that has come to fruition (at least among major races, you could argue this for minor and irrelevant races) because they do not have psychic powers (unless ethereals are psyker-ish, which may or may not be true as I do not remember the fluff for them, although I remember something about pheromones being the source of their control).

GundamMerc wrote:
The Old Ones theory is more likely for humans, as it explains the prevalence of psykers in the human population.

But this isn't a thread about the general human population. It's about the Emperor. And he is not an old one. He was not created through reproductive procedure, cloning, vat-growth, or any other means. According to the Fluff, which explains the matter from a neutral (and thus, honest) point of view, the Emperor was created by a mass suicide ritual thousands of years before his birth. He was born to mortal parents, but he was not their child per-se. It would be more accurate to say he was warp-spawned, as he existed in the warp as a growing conciousness before he manifested in the physical realm.

The Old Ones theory is a possibility for the rest of the race, but the Emperor is technically -not- human.

metallifan wrote:

GundamMerc wrote:
The Old Ones theory is more likely for humans, as it explains the prevalence of psykers in the human population.

The Old Ones theory is a possibility for the rest of the race, but the Emperor is technically -not- human.

I like this theory better than my friends
"The emperor is a chaos god. or possibly malal"