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So you really are going for that tfg achievement huh? How many gamer points is that, 30, 40?

MagickalMemories wrote:



I have 2x of each of the following units:
Warboss on Bike
-Bosspole
-Cybork
(would have Attack Squig if I had the extra points)

Nob Bikerz with Painboy
-all Cybork
-all 'eavy Armor
PK
PK & Waaagh Banner
PK & Bosspole
PK & TL Shoota ('cuz it's cheap)
-Painboy (would have grot orderly, but for the points)

The funny thing is, it doesn't make sense why having one dude holding a banner and one holding a bosspole and one holding a TL shooter makes those 3 dudes need to take twice as much damage before deaths happen than default nobz.

Neither a bosspole or banner or TL gun are things that will stop machine gun bullets in your chest from killing you.

Well i dont fit that descript, because im not a guy. and i really am laid back when i play with others. I just didnt know (until now) that nob bikers used up the wound allocation thingies to be, for the lack of a better term, optimized.

And yes bloodgod i can see where you're coming from.


PS: After talking about it with some friends in the FLGS, only like 2 or 3, out of like 15-20 know about the lists "loopholes" quite surprising really.

I know, I know. I was just trying to be witty.

well i think the wound allocation is clever. but all in all, i was seeing the army from a modeling perspective, rather than a competitive army to play.

enmitee wrote:Well i dont fit that descript, because im not a guy. and i really am laid back when i play with others. I just didnt know (until now) that nob bikers used up the wound allocation thingies to be, for the lack of a better term, optimized.

And yes bloodgod i can see where you're coming from.


PS: After talking about it with some friends in the FLGS, only like 2 or 3, out of like 15-20 know about the lists "loopholes" quite surprising really.

Yeah, I have plenty of respect for the ork players who wound allocate like GW intended.

Do people think the aforementioned Nobz bike squad wouldn't be competitive (As strong as other armies fast attack options, etc.) if they were used the way it feels they were intended.

I know that I wish my chaos bikers had a 4+ cover save, Feel No Pain, multiple attacks, and 2 wounds each. I would actually use bikers if they had ork stats.

TheBloodGod wrote:
Yeah, I have plenty of respect for the ork players who wound allocate like GW intended.

That's interesting, the 5th edition rulebook allows complex wound allocation. I'm sure if GW didn't intend complex wound allocations they would not have written it into their core rulebook. Sounds like your stuck in 4th edition, stop crying about the new book and get over yourself.

I'm sure you'll have some snarky jackass remark. I guess you know exactly what the game designers were thinking when they wrote the books.

Linkdead wrote:

TheBloodGod wrote:
Yeah, I have plenty of respect for the ork players who wound allocate like GW intended.

That's interesting, the 5th edition rulebook allows complex wound allocation. I'm sure if GW didn't intend complex wound allocations they would not have written it into their core rulebook. Sounds like your stuck in 4th edition, stop crying about the new book and get over yourself.

I'm sure you'll have some snarky jackass remark. I guess you know exactly what the game designers were thinking when they wrote the books.

Actually, I do think I know how GW intended killing nobz to go.

For example, let us examine a unit of four Ork Nobz, which have 2 Wounds each. Three of the Nobz are identical, while one has been upgraded with a better weapon. If the unit suffers nine wounds, the player must allocate two on each model, leaving a spare wound that he will allocate on a normal Nob. The player then takes seven saves for the three normal Nobz, failing three. He cannot put a single wound on each Nob, but must remove one model as well as recording that one normal Nob has suffered a wound.
He then takes the two saves for the upgraded Nob and fails one, so he must record that the upgraded Nob has suffered a wound as well. The unit is then fired upon by another enemy and suffers a single wound. This will automatically kill the wounded Nob and cannot be allocated to the remaining healthy Nob"
"If amongst the unsaved wounds there are some that inflict instant death, the player must first, if possible, remove one unwounded model for each unsaved wound that causes instant death, and then proceed as normal. (this is done for each group of identical multiple-wound models). This rule is designed to stop players avoiding single wounds by putting them on a model that has suffered instant death anyway." (Page 26)


The example by Games Workshop of how you're supposed to kill multiple nobz when you take heavy fire instead of just putting 1 wound on every single Nob is pretty obvious. If one Nob is greatly superior to a bunch of other ones, then they want it to work differently, but it's pretty clear that blizz wants heavy shooting to mean Nobz dying, not magic immortal mobs because of loopholing skills.

Thank you for being so incredibly respectful and mature in your response.

Don't the rules say that instant deaths have to be applied to models with the most wounds first? Even before you do the whole allocating 1 to each model and rolling in groups of wargear.

one of the post in the first page answered this. Please re-re-re-read it.

Mod in:

Rude comments are not allowed.

Please review rule no.1 in the posting guidelines.

I have never gone against nob bikers yet but they sound pretty tough even without the loop hole tactic.

If I did have to face them I play daemons so I'd probably try to get my skulltaker charging them (rending, instant death on a 4+). Do nob bikers get access to any kind of melta bomb equivilents (I don't own the ork codex)? If not I'd probably try and hold the second squad up with my soulgrinder.

It doesn't sound like a very fair and balanced list. It also doesn't seem like it GW meant for Nobs to be used like this, but there isn't very much they can do about it now I don't think (until the next codex?).

I may disagree with how people play like this to win at all costs but I am always willing to play at least a few games first with them. Sometimes running the math isn't quite the same as actually playing the game.

I do believe my attitude might change once I actually vs this dreaded list though lol.

Well their warboss is str 10 with a PK. watch out for that.

i may have to try the nob biker list, something ive never tried

just a basic layout like:

Warboss, bike, klaw, attack squig, bosspole, cybork - 155

Nob, bike, cybork, waaagh!, big choppa - 70
Nob, bike, cybork, big choppa - 55
Nob, bike, cybork, klaw - 75
Nob, bike, cybork, klaw - 75
Nob, bike, cybork, painboy - 80

thas my attempt anyways lol, before anyone complains about wound allocation it was only possible to make 2 the same, i dont like playing with the wound allocation rules, but in a unit like this to take everything you want it isnt allways possible.

seems like a huge waste of 510 points to me o.o
might give it a try though.

JD21290: Ever since the ork dex came out, I have often run a 6 strong nob biker unit. It's not as points heavy as the 10 strong, but it can definitely put the hurt out. With fewer models though you do have to be more careful about what you assault or more importantly what can assault you after you have wiped something out.

To everyone that whines about nob bikers: get over it. In a years time or less, there will be some other army that has something shiney and new that you can complain about.

ive been thinking about it alot to the point where i have a friend willing to lend me some to tinker with, but im not sure here.

those 510 points just for 6 models seem like a huge sink, 3 broadsides would have a field day with that lot.

budro, funny isnt it?
1st people complained about the chaos lash armies, then the drop guard marines, now ork, im guessing it will be the wolves or IG in the whine next time

on another note here since people seem to think once nob bikers are in CC they have won:


8 Bloodcrushers, fury, instrument - 335
Skulltaker on juggernaut - 175
Total - 510 points

a unit of the same cost, another high impact shock unit, anyone good with huge mathhammers? im pretty sure the bloodcrushers wouldnt have much of a problem here.
6 attacks from skulltaker with a 4+ instant death.
then 24 more power weapon attacks from the crushers.

I wise for the fight:

skulltaker, crushers and warboss, then the nobz.

for the dirt cheap price of 400 points you can get the following unit:

painboy,
3 nobs with c/s
1 pk nob with bosspole
1 pk nob with waaagh banner
all have bikes and cybork

For 10 more points you can add a combi-skorcha and a combi-rokkit to 2 of the c/s nobs and have all unique models.

The nice thing about this unit, is that in 1750 you still have room for 1x30 shoota boyz, 2x15 grots, 2 BWs and 2 units of lootas. Lootas ride in the BWs by the way (and by "ride" I mean they sit there for the entire game and shoot out of it...).

Do not attempt to assault bloodcrushers with nobs. Not ever. Not even in your wildest daydream. It will end badly.

me and the guy i was playing at the time found this out
i had never faced orks with my daemons before, and from what i had heard biker nobz were unstoppable, so i tried everything to slow them dowm, shoot them, in the end i gave up and threw a max sized crusher unit at them, and watched the nobz die in that turn

alot of things in the daemon dex should work well against biker nobz.

thirster, unholy might - 270 points.
6 S8 attacks on the charge with WS 10.

so not only will biker nobz have trouble hitting the thirster, but he will be doing some nice instant death damage

Yeah, I think it's funny that people whine about the ork dex so much when the deamon dex is packed full of munster - I meant monsters.

Deamons vs orks is always a good bash.

At least with the waaagh banner, the nobs still only need 4's to hit. Deth rollas do a good job on crushers - especially if they death and glory. Shoot, shoot and shoot the thrister.

edit: oohh, a new rank. aren't I special. Only 19,650 more posts and I'll max out...

For whoever asked questions about running numbers...adding skulltaker to 8 crushers gives the crushers the edge against 10-man nob bikers.

Wow! The wound allocation is TOTALLY over the top. If THIS is what people have been facing in GTs I'm glad I don't play there. Sounds like a lot of very unpleasant people.

I think the ork biker nobz as intended are a hard unit, but you also pay through the nose for them. With the wound cheeder they sound pretty broken, and deliberately so.

The wound allocation rules are terrible.

They should have stuck with torrent of fire.

What is torrent of fire? I don't recall that ruling.

MagickalMemories wrote:
I have 2x of each of the following units:

Nob Bikerz with Painboy
-all Cybork
-all 'eavy Armor

Eric

Just want to make sure that you aren't actually paying 5 points a model to get 'eavy armor on your nobs....

All nobs who purchase a bike get a dakkagun, a cover save and 'eavy armor for free.

TheBloodGod wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Cheese and whine go together.
People who cry "cheese" are sure to bring the whine.

Eric

Insults like "you're a whiner" go hand-in-hand with people that have no morals and are the type who would abuse any glitch or loophole to win, even when it's not something intended.

Something like Bikers being somewhat fast and somewhat strong was probably intended.

Them taking 8 or 9 or more wounds without losing a single person or attack is something GW wouldn't want to do.
(I think "You must remove whole models as casualties where possible. Wounds may not be 'spread around' to avoid removing models" (40k pg. 26) clearly explains how they meant for squads of nobs to work. Blizz just didn't bother coming up with some rocket science level definition to stop the current abuse.)

Any reasonable person knows that isn't balanced at all.

It takes a LOT of guns to cause 9 wounds against T5 and 4+ cover save and 4+ FNP. If you fire like 60-100 shots into a pack of nob bikers and not a single one is dead, and you dislike it, are you a bad person for complaining? No.

I think breaking the game by abusing loopholes to win-at-all-costs is worse than anything the other guy could do. And you're on purpose doing this every game you bring the aforementioned list.

Calling people names is a defensive mechanism to defend your morally-questionable strategy.

(Edit: T5 not T4.)

Thank you.
That was quite a humorous post.

Want some to go with that.

See, your post didn't have fact to back it up. it had opinion.

Sure, you have to take whole models when you can. Ork Nob Mobs, though, were specifically created in contrast to that rule. It's just an emphasis of their toughness, man. What you see as "taking advantage" and WAAC, I see as a good strategy with a tough unit.

Also, I didn't say I had a problem with people COMPLAINING about it. I specifically said WHINE. Complain all you want but, as soon as you start using the word, you're whining.


I don't abuse rules or glitches. My gaming group comes to a concensus on RAI, if there's a rules issue, and we play it that way. We also build the toughest dang forces we can, regardless of "fluff." I have a BYB thought process.
"Bring Your Best," because you can guarantee I'm bringing mine.

Also, you can't examine models in a vaccuum.
If my Nob Mob gets charged by a bunch of P-Fist or T-Hammer wielding terminators with Storm shields, they're going to get pulverized.
Does that mean that the Termies are the new "unbalanced" unit? I mean, you talk about how the Nobs aren't balanced. Anything that can lay a unit of them low so easily is SURE to be unbalanced itself. I mean, if it was a BALANCED unit doing a number on the Nobs... that might mean that the Nobs aren't so unbalanced, after all.

I find it interesting that you told me/us what GW would and wouldn't want to do, and what they intended for Nobs in the rules. I didn't realize that you were on the development team. You can't argue RAI and be taken seriously. Unless you have documented telepathic abilities, you really don't know WHAT they were thinking.

Also, please show me where I called anyone names in the quote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Cheese and whine go together.
People who cry "cheese" are sure to bring the whine.

If you're going to make an accusation or assertion, you;ll need to back it up.

Eric

JD21290 wrote:me and the guy i was playing at the time found this out
i had never faced orks with my daemons before, and from what i had heard biker nobz were unstoppable, so i tried everything to slow them dowm, shoot them, in the end i gave up and threw a max sized crusher unit at them, and watched the nobz die in that turn

OMG.

BloodCrushers aren't balanced.

Clearly, GW didn't intend for you to take a full sized unit of them.

/sarcasm

^ meant to illustrate a point, not to be argumentative.

Clearly, Nobs can die, and die fast. Every army has something that can kill 'em.... it's just a matter of whether you take it or not.

Eric

Shep wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:
I have 2x of each of the following units:

Nob Bikerz with Painboy
-all Cybork
-all 'eavy Armor

Eric

Just want to make sure that you aren't actually paying 5 points a model to get 'eavy armor on your nobs....

All nobs who purchase a bike get a dakkagun, a cover save and 'eavy armor for free.

Correct.

I was going across the stat line & pointing out the highlights... You get so used to 6+ with Orks, that 4+ jumps out at you.
It was just a typo.
That would be a waste of good points. You could get a couple Attack Squigs for those points. : )

Eric

At 1.5K, I tend to do one of two options, depending on my mood. First, I can run twin Warboss with two Nob Biker mobs (7-9 strong, depending). That means I field the rest of my army as just Boyz with not many other bells and whistles. The second option is a single Warboss with a single Nob Biker mob (up to 10 strong, depending). Then, I can fit in Kommandos or Lootas, again based on my mood.

Here is how I configure my Nobz:
- PK, Waaagh! Banner
- PK, Kombi-Scorcha
- PK, Ammo Runt
- PK, Slugga
- BC, Bosspole
- BC, Kombi-Scorcha
- BC, Ammo Runt
- BC, Slugga
- Choppa, Slugga / PK, Kombi-Rokkit / BC, Kombi-Rokkit (depends on what you want)
- Painboy

That makes it, with the boss, about 820 points for the above unit, depending on the loadout of the last Nob. That leaves you with about 680 points to tinker with if you do the single Nob Mob (at 1500pts), which is about 4 Mobs of 20 Shoota Boyz w/ PK Nobs and two Big Shootas. Strategy and tactics are, for me, just smashing tough units with them and let the Boyz mop up and take objectives (while turbo-boosting last turn to steal/contest with the Nobs, if they can). Just be careful at 1.5k if you run just one Mob, because they can often get ground down quick agaisnt certain armies. Str8/9/10 shots/blasts are killer.

Getting into 2K, just go for a twin Boss/Biker Mob and some Boyz. Same basic stuff.

i actually like this hybrid list, doesnt solely depend on the bikers to win.

and point very well taken MM