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The reason I use the Dire Wolves is because I think the models for the Flesh Hounds are... well, bad.

Quite intriguing, especially as the dire wolves are often considered some of the most ugly and disproportionate models ever made by GW.

I don't like counts as models or armies generally. Converting models is one thing, using unconverted models that belong to other units as something else is another. No, your goblins are not skinks. No, your warhounds are not flesh hounds. No, your orks are not space marines.

Therion wrote:

The reason I use the Dire Wolves is because I think the models for the Flesh Hounds are... well, bad.

Quite intriguing, especially as the dire wolves are often considered some of the most ugly and disproportionate models ever made by GW.

Massively disproportionate for actual wolves, yes. Their heads are far too large. Which is why they work as daemonic hounds...

I don't like counts as models or armies generally. Converting models is one thing, using unconverted models that belong to other units as something else is another. No, your goblins are not skinks. No, your warhounds are not flesh hounds. No, your orks are not space marines.

But how much converting is converting? Is my modelling a Khorne symbol on the hind leg enough? What if it isn't modelled on, but painted on?

I can kind of understand you getting frustrated about proxying models, such as "I don't yet have the Bloodcrusher Herald, would you be OK with me using my Great Unclean One", but when the model has been bought and painted specifically to fit a particular role in a particular army, why do you have a problem with it?

Question along similar lines: Would you have a problem with me using a standard Bloodcrusher as a Khorne Herald on Juggernaut, given that I don't use normal Juggernauts and the only way to get the official Herald model is to mail order, which costs about half as much again, takes an extra week to arrive, and frankly doesn't look any better?

Let's not get into another "counts as" argument here, please.

So, what about banners, musicians and champions? Should my small Core units have full command, or what?

Why would you want to give your opponent 100 points if they take the standard?

Usually in MSU tactics they are either so good they don't need the bonuses of a standard, or they are redirecters/shooters and are throwaway units.

Pariah Press wrote: Let's not get into another "counts as" argument here, please.

So, what about banners, musicians and champions? Should my small Core units have full command, or what?

Depends on the unit and objective, but in general "No."

Plaguebearers w/ Herald on Planaquin in the unit are the exception to this rule, since they want their static Res and the ability to challenge with the champ to save the Herald from big nasties (like Bloodthirsters).

I've played against a few Horror lists that just spam units of 10, but they take the Banner and they all have the +1 to cast magic banner/gift on every unit - as such all horror units cast on a 3+ for the magic missile spell - so it makes the Tzeench Gunline way more effective, but the problem here is that if your opponent can get through that and hit the blocks that's an extra 100 points per block killed.

Bloodletters generally if taken are in MSU cheerleader squads, though I've seen a few armies use a single big block that had full command and housed a Herald on Jugger to deliver some pain. It's certainly not optimal but it's different if you were looking for something to look compier without being completely terrible.

Daemonettes, ehh, I just don't like them in general, but if you're going to invest in a Herald w/ Siren, then adding command bits to the unit to round it out, but I don't think Daemonettes work best that way.

Riiiight. I forgot about the 100 point bonus for capturing a standard. It's been a while since I've played WHFB. So, with:
Plaguebearers: probably
Horrors: maybe, but it's risky
Bloodletters: no
Daemonettes: doesn't-matter-I'm-not-taking-them

daemonettes main ability is to stand there and take the one siren commanded charge while being stubborn. After that the dogs roll in.

I personally like them in 15 man blocks with a full cmd (and a hearld is manditory in this unit).

Never taken plaguebearers but they are probbally best in units of 21 with the hearld and full cmd (25 man total)

Horrors best in blocks of 10 with the standard only if you actually plan on getting spells off. A lvl 1 caster with 1 dice and a 4+ to cast is prety random. If they arent planning to cast then they are useless in my book.

Bloodletters usually do best in 10 blocks that move arround and can kill most units if they manage to flank or can provide support to combined dog charges.
The extra str also helps a lot against large monsters (say a brand new thunder-lizard)

for speicals hounds are the best choice for prety much every job. All others are vague and not always useful. I believe hounds work best in groups of 6.

All the rares are good they just all have different purposes. I personally like fiends for the really long charge range.

On the hounds vs bloodcrushers debate.
Against str 3 attacks they are equal.
Against str 5 attacks hounds are better
But as the two most dangerous oponents are deamons and vampire counts you shouldnt be shot much and therefore only combat matters. In combat the str 6, hatred (hearld) and killing blow make the crushers significantly better than the hounds in most cases.

So, if you think you will be shot moving up the table take hounds, if not take bloodcrushers.
The only problem being hounds occupy a slot that nobody else has a claim to and there are fiends/flamers clamoring for that rare slot which could push the crushers out of consideration.

Remember though, bloodcrushers kill hounds in combat (the killing blow will eat the hounds up).

numberwise, any number up to 4 for the ogre type units works well and flamers are good in groups of 6 (should they get stuck in combat they need the umph that extra attacks provides).

Also the daemonettes are the fastest of the core daemons and can keep up (to a degree) with all your fast moving characters, special and rare choices.

For getting your core to the fight, they do better than all the other selections.

Okay, let's talk Screamers, now. What's a good unit size there? I tend to play against Empire a fair bit, so I used to use them to take out artillary crews a lot. That was back when they were a lot better, though. I generally ran 4 screamers. Is this enough anymore? Should I field all five, or go down to 3 and use to other two to pull a chariot? Or sitch 'em all and make TWO chariots? That's a lot of questions, isn't it? It's almost like I'm thinking out loud, only I'm not really saying anything; I'm just typing.

I think you're better served having the Chariot rather than the unit of Screamers, but that's just me.